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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A few weeks back I posted on PMWF about some watches found on FleaBay under the lable of M.T.E. They were inexpensive, mechanical, and looked ok. With the wife's ok, I pulled the trigger on one since they were so inexpensive.

This is the one I went for:





Well, the watch arrrived around May 19th, and it turned out to be too good to be true. This is what I actually received:





Yes, a counterfit IWC. Not what I was looking for at all. I sent the seller four messages through eBay over the span of several days indicating I was not happy with his bait and switch and I did not want his counterfeit, all with no reply. After I felt I had given the seller ample chance to reply, I filed a claim with Paypal, left negative feedback and informed eBay that the item was counterfeit.

Paypal responded within 24 hours that my payment had been refunded. Shortly after that I received a message back from the seller with a list of all his issues (an auto accident, surgery and the earthquake) as to why he was not able to reply. He asked if I was unhappy since it was such a fine watch. He offered to refund my money plus shipping fees to send the watch back to him. Since I already had my refund, I ignored his response.

As far as the eBay side of things, I checked his items for sale today and none of the M.T.E watches are listed any longer. So I suspect they were all Photoshopped connterfeit watches.

I took a chance and got stung, but at least I was able to recover my funds and hopefully protect anyone else from suffering from the same thing.
 

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A few weeks back I posted on PMWF about some watches found on FleaBay under the lable of M.T.E. They were inexpensive, mechanical, and looked ok. With the wife's ok, I pulled the trigger on one since they were so inexpensive.

This is the one I went for:





Well, the watch arrrived around May 19th, and it turned out to be too good to be true. This is what I actually received:





Yes, a counterfit IWC. Not what I was looking for at all. I sent the seller four messages through eBay over the span of several days indicating I was not happy with his bait and switch and I did not want his counterfeit, all with no reply. After I felt I had given the seller ample chance to reply, I filed a claim with Paypal, left negative feedback and informed eBay that the item was counterfeit.

Paypal responded within 24 hours that my payment had been refunded. Shortly after that I received a message back from the seller with a list of all his issues (an auto accident, surgery and the earthquake) as to why he was not able to reply. He asked if I was unhappy since it was such a fine watch. He offered to refund my money plus shipping fees to send the watch back to him. Since I already had my refund, I ignored his response.

As far as the eBay side of things, I checked his items for sale today and none of the M.T.E watches are listed any longer. So I suspect they were all Photoshopped connterfeit watches.

I took a chance and got stung, but at least I was able to recover my funds and hopefully protect anyone else from suffering from the same thing.
There is a forum member here who says this is an honest, reliable and trustworthy seller ;-)

Sorry to hear you didn't get what you paid for but there has been enough discussion of this scammer on the forum that you should have had an inkling that this would happen :-(

In spite of the fake IWC markings, the watch looks pretty good; especially the Unitas clone movement. Is the dial enamel, it looks very nice.

If you are going to keep it, why not have the fake labels removed; at least the one on the dial?

It's a real shame that these guys don't realize there are people with money out here willing to buy the watches at their prices but with legitimate logos:-s
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sorry to hear you didn't get what you paid for but there has been enough discussion of this scammer on the forum that you should have had an inkling that this would happen :-(
Unfortunately this isn't a forum I frequent; but in the end I came out with recovered funds, so I'm happy.
 

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Unfortunately this isn't a forum I frequent; but in the end I came out with recovered funds, so I'm happy.
Yes, even with the best due diligence, you could just as easily have been taken by this or any other unscrupulous seller.
Glad it worked out and maybe this will give the seller the idea that not everyone wants a fake:roll:

Any plans for your fake IWC?
 

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I got these recently (from a different seller).
The white one looks the same as yours but without markings:




This one has the same case & movement:



I like the completely 'sterile' approach. Clearly, they are IWC copies but not quite so blatant ;-)
 

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I bought two Sea-gull watches from him. One is ST8004SA Tourbillon which is $5000 now and another is M163S-21 which is about $300 now.

I received them in great condition and my watches are less than 3 seconds per day. The tourbillon is 2 seconds per day and the M163 is 2 seconds per week.

Anyway, that is just my experience, as a matter of fact.
 

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I got these recently (from a different seller).
The white one looks the same as yours but without markings:


This one has the same case & movement:



I like the completely 'sterile' approach. Clearly, they are IWC copies but not quite so blatant ;-)
Well, the back of the movement is different.
 

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None yet. Maybe a redial later. I do like the look, but not the fact that it's fake.
The sterile dials that Dapper posted above look quite good. Without any references to faked trade marks, these watches are perfectly fine. It might be a little more difficult to eradicate the trademark and logo infringements from the movement but I'm sure it could be tastefully done.

Too many folks don't understand what fake means :-s There was some very good technical descriptions about Intellectual Properties and copyright infringement posted on the forum the other day. It is good reading and should be manditory for those folks who don't know the difference between a fake watch with Rolex plastered all over it and the same looking watch with Seiko, Alpha, Omega, etc. on it.
One is totally illegal and the other is perfectly legal.

Selling a watch with IWC plastered all over it is illegal unless IWC actually made or commissioned it to be made. Anyone selling this fake watch is breaking the law and is technically a thief :-(
 

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What I do with it is none of your business, frankly.
Ignore him. I can't tell from the pictures if the movement you received is a Seagull or a PTS-Hangzhou. Please look at the movement, under the balance and see if the pallet bridge has 1 screw (PST-Hangzhou) or 2 screws (Seagull). BTW, the movement in the MTE that you thought you were getting has a Seagull clone 6497.

Be warned of the long thread on the clone 6497 movement!

Cheers,
gigfy
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ignore him. I can't tell from the pictures if the movement you received is a Seagull or a PTS-Hangzhou. Please look at the movement, under the balance and see if the pallet bridge has 1 screw (PST-Hangzhou) or 2 screws (Seagull). BTW, the movement in the MTE that you thought you were getting has a Seagull clone 6497.

Be warned of the long thread on the clone 6497 movement!

Cheers,
gigfy
I'll take a look as soon as I have a chance and let you know. b-)
 

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A reminder to members that discussing fakes and personal attacks are both against WUS rules.
 

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Well, the back of the movement is different.
A fake top plate has been fitted to the movement. This seems to be a popular modification. Often on the ebay listings you can see where the screws don't align with the holes in the fake plate.

A few years ago, before the Chinese Unitas clones came on the market, fake Panerais were made with Molnija movements diguised in a similar fashion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
A reminder to members that discussing fakes and personal attacks are both against WUS rules.
I was simply trying to provide a helpful post so that others would not suffer the same thing.

Janne said:
Sorry to jump in to this "heated" discussion. From an ethical point of view, if your money were refunded by Paypal, should you not send back the fake IWC? To keep it - is de facto stealing it!
Do you not think so?
And, JitteryJim, if you do not want our opinion, you are free not to post here!
I was not seeking opinions, I was actually encouraged to post this here and was simply trying to be informative. I see now how people are treated here and you don't have to worry. I won't be a regular of this forum.
 

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Sorry if I upset you, JitteryJim! Sometimes I get a "slap" from the WUS members too. Not un-deserved, I have to say! But this is afterall a Forum to exchange ideas, etc.
Please continue to be a Regular!
 
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