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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, a question, hoping anybody has some insight.
I read about the 4L movements here:
Seiko 4L25 - Watch Wiki: The Best Watches and Watch Brands

A watch has suddenly made a big blip on my radar and im contemplating a purchase(!)
But being that manufacture of this movement has ceased in 2013, should I be concerned that years down the line, getting Seiko to properly service the watch could become a problem?

Honestly the way the movement is described on watch-wiki, I kind of dont like how it sounds like this was Seiko's whimsical attempt at cloning a Swiss base caliber. It really makes the movement sound a bit lame. But to be honest, looking at the movement through the caseback, it really is very beautifully decorated (and yes in the Swiss way), one of the nicest looking movements Seiko has made.
 

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Of course Seiko did not cloned anything, only the size is compatible with the ETA 2982, nothing else is the same. There are various discussions on this mov.t that you can easily find with a search.
Any competent watchmaker will be able to service it for the foreseeable future. Beside, parts are the same as the Soprod A10, which is in current production.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sorry, clone clearly wasn't the right word. What I meant was it seemed to have been Seiko's brief attempt to create their most Swiss-like movement and to more directly move upon that market. The plan didn't work out, but the movement itself is actually quite nice even though it was a departure from their usual methods in an attempt to make a more Swiss counterpart.

My main concern is long term servicing of the movement, since I don't plan on flipping it. Which I suppose on a basic level shouldn't be a problem given the soprod (although this isn't exactly a common movement)... But I'd tend to prefer to service directly through the manufacturer, which in this case would be Seiko Credor. And I have heard rumblings that they don't maintain parts for some older movements and may not be able to offer full service of such movements.
 
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As mentioned, personally I don't think you would ever have any problem servicing such a watch not matter who you do chose for that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Oh, well Domo I'm in Japan again... would be pretty interesting if I were looking at a gcbw989 or even 991... although those I believe are 30bar WR watches, usually a deal breaker for me. But what I've come across is a brand new (at least displayed as such and looks the part) more pedestrian gcbw997. But oy, it is nice and that 38 mm slim case sits on my wrist like a dream.

I once again find myself intent on bringing home a special time souvenir. Right now the main candidates are sbgt035/037 quartz GS with cool kanji day wheel, sdgz017 brightz chronograph with blue sunburst (spotted once; actually tough to find), and the Credor.

I also spotted a used white dialed titanium Credor Phoenix chronograph for just 200000¥, but doesn't suit my wrist and frankly isn't in that great condition. Played with sbgc GS chronograph pushers for the first time. Damn, the pusher feel on that movement is also a dream, and the way the chronograph seconds hand boings to zero! And the feeling of controlling a spring drive seconds hand! Wish they were smaller, and cheaper. Also fell smitten handling a jeanrichard 39 mm terrascope on bracelet... super nice. But oh, that isn't JDM ;)

Idk, I have a tough time passing up a Credor mechanical in Japan and in the metal... Last time I came home with gcbz995 even though it came on croc strap and it took me like 8 months and an extra $650 to secure a Credor bracelet to swap out. And I don't even completely favor that bracelet's styling. The gcbw comes on a very nice bracelet, very good wrist fit, and very strong movement finishing; incidentally weak points of the totally beautiful gcbz.

Oh! also got to fondle a white dial gcbk that I recall you having an interest in. Damn, premium pusher feel on that one too! Though not sbgc premium ;)
 
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Oh, well Domo I'm in Japan again... would be pretty interesting if I were looking at a gcbw989 or even 991... although those I believe are 30bar WR watches, usually a deal breaker for me. But what I've come across is a brand new (at least displayed as such and looks the part) more pedestrian gcbw997. But oy, it is nice and that 38 mm slim case sits on my wrist like a dream.

I once again find myself intent on bringing home a special time souvenir. Right now the main candidates are sbgt035/037 quartz GS with cool kanji day wheel, sdgz017 brightz chronograph with blue sunburst (spotted once; actually tough to find), and the Credor.

I also spotted a used white dialed titanium Credor Phoenix chronograph for just 200000¥, but doesn't suit my wrist and frankly isn't in that great condition. Played with sbgc GS chronograph pushers for the first time. Damn, the pusher feel on that movement is also a dream, and the way the chronograph seconds hand boings to zero! And the feeling of controlling a spring drive seconds hand! Wish they were smaller, and cheaper. Also fell smitten handling a jeanrichard 39 mm terrascope on bracelet... super nice. But oh, that isn't JDM ;)

Idk, I have a tough time passing up a Credor mechanical in Japan and in the metal... Last time I came home with gcbz995 even though it came on croc strap and it took me like 8 months and an extra $650 to secure a Credor bracelet to swap out. And I don't even completely favor that bracelet's styling. The gcbw comes on a very nice bracelet, very good wrist fit, and very strong movement finishing; incidentally weak points of the totally beautiful gcbz.

Oh! also got to fondle a white dial gcbk that I recall you having an interest in. Damn, premium pusher feel on that one too! Though not sbgc premium ;)
Yeah, there's a few GCBKs (Pacifiques) on Yahoo Japan now, I went with a Phoenix instead, a GCPB991. I do not like the GCBW997 at all, very dated in a bad way. The 989 and 991s are b-e-a-utiful, I'd get that. You REALLY should try and find a Node with the 7R hand wind spring drive movement though. The best finishing Seiko's done on a non-high end watch. That soft brushing on the barrel is amazing IRL. The big date versions and moonphase versions are the bee's knees, but the regular date-at-6 is nothing to scoff at either. I for one really like the 2-4-7 motif.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Man that's true domo, spring drives do get finished incredibly well too... especially something like that gclp997. Very nice. Unfortunately even if I ignore a 3bar WR, the rarity, price point, and another more difficult bracelet search all pretty badly work against that acquisition. Also had too many other things to do on this trip than hunt down any specific rare watches! ;). I do like the 2 4 7 motif too though.
As for gcbw997, I wouldn't say design wise it really looks dated, especially in new condition, but I'd agree one part that's my least favorite part about it is the font for "automatic" written on the dial, which does look dated. I think it's a great looking watch, but yes unlike my signo GMT, HB GMT, and Snowflake, it is more conservative, subtle, basic, no signature "wow" dial trait that I usually go for :). Just a really nice watch all around but nothing that stands out or will get it particularly noticed. My gcbz on the other hand is a real attention grabber, possibly the most stunning of the 3 dials even if not necessarily the "best" of the three!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Well, I went and got the watch ( gcbw997 ) and I'm quite happy with it. I just can't resist an affordable mechanical Credor presenting itself as a splurgy travel souvenir, and in recent years they seem to be phasing out full mechanical automatics in their lineup.

The dial is quite subtle but pretty special. I hadn't fully realized it before purchase, but at certain angles I can now see the dial has a perfectly even transparent gloss on it. Which I suppose means that this isn't just guilloche on the dial, it's something that I guess is called flinque. Not that that's anything super special, and the process has been done more impressively by makers like Blancpain and Cartier, but it is something extra and adds a richness to the dial in the form of unexpected reflections (you can see the seconds hand reflected on the dial in the last pic), light haloing, and possibly a subtle tint. The outer part of the dial is super micro snailed/ribbed and in many lighting conditions gives off a spectral sheen (3rd pic) much like the one I've noticed on the thin 24 hour chapter ring of the mysterious new GS sbgj017.

All in all while it's a very subtle piece that may not turn many heads, it's all in the details with this one and I've gotten a little more than what I thought I was getting. Beautifully finished movement too. And the bracelet has a nice delicate feel to it that's unlike that found in the GS lineup.

Being a department store purchase, good reduced price of 210000 yen ($2000) from the tagged 270000 yen. Of course, who knows how long it's been in that store's showcase or possession ... by my estimation possibly as many as 6-9 years. And it does show some of the wear of being a floor show piece, yet is in better condition than most actual used watches. Time keeping is also a bit dodgy (though not horrendous), which would make sense if it has indeed been around for 6-9 years without a servicing... It is on brand new warranty though! ;)
 

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Very nice. How thick it is? I'm afraid that Seiko never managed to fully use the slimness of this movement.
 

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The lubricants are definitely gassed out.

Time for a service.

And if the watch is actually approaching 10 years since manufacture the gaskets are experiencing significant oxidation.

Since this is an orphan caliber family Seiko specific parts will be virtually unobtainable in the future outside the Seiko supply chain - if found there.

Accordingly, don't subject the movement to unnecessary wear due to lack of servicing.
 

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FWIW, I read somewhere that the Soprod A-10 is actually a clone of a Seiko movement...
 

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FWIW, I read somewhere that the Soprod A-10 is actually a clone of a Seiko movement...
Not just any Seiko movement, but the 4L25.
 

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FWIW, I read somewhere that the Soprod A-10 is actually a clone of a Seiko movement...
Actually is produced from the same 4L25 original design under a technology transfer agreement. What they won't tell is from which country this original design originates.
 

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Source? Have you disassembled both side-to-side? Pics?
No pics for you [email protected] boy.

lol.

You can access the tech docs directly at Festina - if you can obtain permission (doubtful in your case).

You probably believe that Sellita SW200 is a clone of ETA 2824-2.

Your parts interchange claim is bogus and based on a single non professional comment.

Prove it [email protected] boy.

lol
 

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No pics for you [email protected] boy.

lol.

You can access the tech docs directly at Festina - if you can obtain permission (doubtful in your case).

You probably believe that Sellita SW200 is a clone of ETA 2824-2.

Your parts interchange claim is bogus and based on a single non professional comment.

Prove it [email protected] boy.

lol
Perfect. Exactly what readers needed to see to further demonstrate your attitude, or hubris should I say. Enjoy your Festina database access, and pathetically lone lolling.
 

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Perfect. Exactly what readers needed to see to further demonstrate your attitude, or hubris should I say. Enjoy your Festina database access, and pathetically lone lolling.
Quit speculating about things that you know little or nothing about.

You do the forum and community a disservice by spreading misinformation and innuendo.
 
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