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Having read this entire thread I have the following comments:

1. Archer is a legend around here and his knowledge and advice is always solid. He has always been very accurate in what he says and it's backed by a ton of training and knowledge and real experience. Trying to pick apart his statements and argue with him about something that he knows about so well, seems silly to me. Unless the point is just to troll the thread.

2. If you have a mechanical watch that keeps time within COSC daily rate on the wrist, does anything else really matter? My speedy pro is not a chronometer but Archer got it running to +3 per day, on the wrist. Do I care if it would pass several other COSC tests? Am I traveling to Antarctica or the Sahara? No. I think sometimes people get hung up on the status of having a chronometer and get upset if someone has a watch that is not a chronometer that runs within COSC timing on the wrist...so it becomes really important to say their chronometer is still "better". BTW my speedy is not a chronometer but it runs +3 per day and could take a trip to the moon and back. So there. ;-)
The thing is 'COSC' and 'chronometer' have very specific meanings. It's quite the opposite in your case. Your lack of proper understanding of COSC allows you to feel good about a technically inferior movement. Just like all the 'COSC spec' Seiko 5s on here. *Rollseyes*

Archer is supposed to be a professional and should know better about improperly using 'COSC'. If proper definitions are used, we won't have the continued babblings of 'COSC Spec!' $50 movement watches...

Back to the Sellita issue, didn't Zenith announce they will be using them?
 

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What a ray of sunshine!
 
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The thing is 'COSC' and 'chronometer' have very specific meanings. It's quite the opposite in your case. Your lack of proper understanding of COSC allows you to feel good about a technically inferior movement. Just like all the 'COSC spec' Seiko 5s on here. *Rollseyes*

Archer is supposed to be a professional and should know better about improperly using 'COSC'. If proper definitions are used, we won't have the continued babblings of 'COSC Spec!' $50 movement watches...

Back to the Sellita issue, didn't Zenith announce they will be using them?
Are you kidding?? The one and only reference Al made is the fact that watches can be regulated to run within COSC timing specs. He was very clear that...Bah, never mind!
 

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Are you kidding?? The one and only reference Al made is the fact that watches can be regulated to run within COSC timing specs. He was very clear that...Bah, never mind!
By using that term improperly he's a contributing factor to the gaggle of misinformed people running around thinking that their 7S26s and ST16s are 'COSC spec' or 'Chronometers'.
 

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Sellita movements, although misleading because of people's perception (coming mostly from its origin), are very nicely made.
I would say up to $2k price point, they are one of the best movements for the buck, right on par with ETA.
Always would recommend. Practically no difference with ETAs imo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
Sellita movements, although misleading because of people's perception (coming mostly from its origin), are very nicely made.
I would say up to $2k price point, they are one of the best movements for the buck, right on par with ETA.
Always would recommend. Practically no difference with ETAs imo.
Great then. Maybe in the future I will consider Oris.
 

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Great then. Maybe in the future I will consider Oris.
You should. I think in their price range, they provide exceedingly good value for money. Plus, you are supporting one of the few watch companies that isnt part of a corporate conglomerate.
 

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By using that term improperly he's a contributing factor to the gaggle of misinformed people running around thinking that their 7S26s and ST16s are 'COSC spec' or 'Chronometers'.
Okay - you got me. My master plan was to diminish the value of all the COSC watches out there! :)

If you really think that my saying what I said once, then clarifying what I meant 3 times has been more influential than the 1000 times a day people here refer to -4 to +6 as "COSC" (which if you actually read what I wrote, is not at all what I said) then you assume I have more influence here than I do.

If anyone ever wonders why most watchmakers don't participate in watch forums, this is thread is a good illustration why...

Cheers, Al
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
You should. I think in their price range, they provide exceedingly good value for money. Plus, you are supporting one of the few watch companies that isnt part of a corporate conglomerate.
I got the impression Oris still cares about making a good product for people. So that's why I was asking about Selitta. Can't be bad if they went for it.

Looking to to get maybe 1 more. The LeLocle is perfect for work, but my Orange dial Seiko Diver isn't appropriate for all non formal situations. i think i just need 1 more with a black dial to round it off. And I want this one to be my "expensive" one. Expensive for me.
 

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I got the impression Oris still cares about making a good product for people. So that's why I was asking about Selitta. Can't be bad if they went for it.

Looking to to get maybe 1 more. The LeLocle is perfect for work, but my Orange dial Seiko Diver isn't appropriate for all non formal situations. i think i just need 1 more with a black dial to round it off. And I want this one to be my "expensive" one. Expensive for me.
Agree with you that Oris seems to focus more on product quality, less on image.

The Aquis is very nice, as recommended above. Personally, i'm jonesing for the soon-to-hit-the-shelves Sixty Five. I am a sucker for vintage reissues, as you can see from my collection, and that one may be my Oris.
 

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Okay - you got me. My master plan was to diminish the value of all the COSC watches out there! :)

If you really think that my saying what I said once, then clarifying what I meant 3 times has been more influential than the 1000 times a day people here refer to -4 to +6 as "COSC" (which if you actually read what I wrote, is not at all what I said) then you assume I have more influence here than I do.

If anyone ever wonders why most watchmakers don't participate in watch forums, this is thread is a good illustration why...

Cheers, Al

Al, I highly doubt anyone here doubts your knowledge and expertise barring a FEW that just can't understand English. Your use of keeping COSC time was clear and fully understood by the thinking members. I've never understood why people that are NOT an expert watchmaker think it's cool to correct someone that is.
 

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I don't think that "gaggle" exists at all.
I agree 1000%. This is nothing more than a post to try and discredit a man that has forgotten more about watches than some will ever know. I've never told my doctor his use of terminology is misleading and will confuse the general public, I'm not a doctor. To Dimman (appropriate screen name), become a watchmaker before you profess to be an expert in the field.
 

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Okay - you got me. My master plan was to diminish the value of all the COSC watches out there! :)

If you really think that my saying what I said once, then clarifying what I meant 3 times has been more influential than the 1000 times a day people here refer to -4 to +6 as "COSC" (which if you actually read what I wrote, is not at all what I said) then you assume I have more influence here than I do.

If anyone ever wonders why most watchmakers don't participate in watch forums, this is thread is a good illustration why...

Cheers, Al
Yes, there are many people yammering about their 'COSC' Seiko 5s. You know better. You know it, we know it. You are not the only person by far.

Instead of 'going with the flow' of playing fast and loose with the terminology, you should be using your superior knowledge to put the hammer down on the improper use of 'COSC', while being more careful yourself.

If anyone wonders why manufacturers are claiming you can't get a proper service outside of the corporate umbrella, and use the excuse to reduce/stop parts access, this thread is a good illustration why...
 

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Interesting conversation. Maybe, if we were talking about in-house movements, the movement is a primary factor in my purchasing decision. In the case of Oris, I own two and have a third on the way. I trust Oris as a proven brand with top quality, in their price range. If Oris is willing to trust their brand to Sellita quality, that works for me.

When buying from micro brands or less known brands, I pay attention to the brand/type of movement. When buying from an established company with a history of producing quality (who have much to lose if they compromise their brand-quality perception), the type of movement is not a primary concern.
 

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By using that term improperly he's a contributing factor to the gaggle of misinformed people running around thinking that their 7S26s and ST16s are 'COSC spec' or 'Chronometers'.
He didn't use the term improperly and has explained it repeatedly. Just because you don't grasp the concept does not mean the rest of us are confused.

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
 

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Yes, there are many people yammering about their 'COSC' Seiko 5s. You know better. You know it, we know it. You are not the only person by far.

Instead of 'going with the flow' of playing fast and loose with the terminology, you should be using your superior knowledge to put the hammer down on the improper use of 'COSC', while being more careful yourself.

If anyone wonders why manufacturers are claiming you can't get a proper service outside of the corporate umbrella, and use the excuse to reduce/stop parts access, this thread is a good illustration why...

Wow, this just blew my mind. Go to the beach and unwind.
 

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Yes, there are many people yammering about their 'COSC' Seiko 5s. You know better. You know it, we know it. You are not the only person by far.

Instead of 'going with the flow' of playing fast and loose with the terminology, you should be using your superior knowledge to put the hammer down on the improper use of 'COSC', while being more careful yourself.

If anyone wonders why manufacturers are claiming you can't get a proper service outside of the corporate umbrella, and use the excuse to reduce/stop parts access, this thread is a good illustration why...
Once again, if you read what I wrote in the 3 clarifications, those statements are completely accurate...as anyone who really understands brand timing specifications and how they are used can attest to. If you choose to ignore those and only focus on the first statement I made, that is your choice.

My work meets or exceeds the work done at factory service centers, as any of my clients can tell you. You can criticize what I've written here all you like, but if you start implying false things about my work, you are crossing a line mate.

Regards, Al
 
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