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Dial help-Historic event themed watches

2661 Views 16 Replies 6 Participants Last post by mike.s, Jul 2, 2017

historyguy

Discussion Starter · Mar 28, 2017

Hello all, as my handle suggests, one of the things I like about Russian watches are their many historic-themed dials. Can any of you experts comment about two themes that I have seen for sale on ebay, but are likely fantasy dials;

1. I am well familiar with the famous Raketa Soyuz watch, but were/are there any legitimate watches depicting the Apollo-Soyuz theme. I have seen several for sale on ebay, one by Poljot, some by Luch...or, should I say, they have movements from these factories.

2. Same question for any Chernobyl related dials...are there any legitimate examples by any Russian watch companies. I have one I purchased which is a Zim, but was identified on this forum as a fantasy dial. Too bad...luckily it was cheap, I like the look, and it works well. Still, I'd rather have legitimate examples in my collection.

Thanks in advance for any help. I always attracted to such watches, but other than the Zim and the Raketa Soyuz I have not pulled the trigger on any other purchases because of my suspicions.

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Arizone

· #2 · Mar 28, 2017

Earlier this year we had a thread discussing some Apollo/Soyuz models here:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/commemoration-apollo-soyuz-space-mission-3939634.html

As far as I know there have been no official Chernobyl related watches, although there is a neat "radiation resistant" Poljot. (A useless designation since all of the Poljot chronographs are already dust-proof.)

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historyguy

Discussion Starter · #3 · Mar 28, 2017

Thanks...I did see that earlier. Was it ever determined if this red/white dial version was legit?

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mariomart

· #4 · Mar 28, 2017

I've got one of these Vostoks on it's way me, but I have yet to find any useful reference material to suggest its an official release or a project release.

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Arizone

· #5 · Mar 28, 2017

historyguy said:
Thanks...I did see that earlier. Was it ever determined if this red/white dial version was legit?

It looks pretty shoddy, I would think no.

mariomart said:
I've got one of these Vostoks on it's way me, but I have yet to find any useful reference material to suggest its an official release or a project release.

I think we just have to assume. The caseback is certainly unique yet properly done, and the dial is pad printed as well.

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mariomart

· #6 · Mar 28, 2017 (Edited)

Arizone said:
I think we just have to assume. The caseback is certainly unique yet properly done, and the dial is pad printed as well.

Okay, I've just surfaced from an EPIC stint of Google researching for the watch with Soyuz Apollo dial I recently acquired.

Although I didn't find the "smoking gun" evidence I was after I did find a very relevant link between the watch dial and smoking.

In 1975 when the Soyuz Apollo mission occurred there was a collaboration between the American cigarette company Philip Morris, who provided the tobacco, and Russian company Tava, who manufactured the cigarettes. The joint venture released the cigarettes under the brand of "Soyuz Apollo". Here is a photo of the cigarette packets released in 1975.

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It's pretty obvious that the graphics on the cigarette packet on the lower right have a direct tie in with the Komandirskie watch, down to the inclusion of the word "Union" on both the packet and the watch.

From this point onward I propose a hypothetical theory.

The Komandirskie watch case the dial is encased in was first produced from the year 2000 onward, which means that the dial couldn't have been released any time sooner. My research shows that up until 2015 the Soyuz Apollo brand was still being produced, but are now no longer in production. My guess is that this watch may have been part of a competition run by Soyuz Apollo for the 30th Anniversary of the actual Soyuz Apollo space rendezvous.

What do you think?

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dutchassasin

· #7 · Mar 28, 2017 (Edited)

As for Chernobyl disaster, there are molnija pocket watches:

And a luch i found on etsy:

https://www.etsy.com/nl/listing/507...search_query=Chernobyl watch&ref=sr_gallery_1

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Arizone

· #8 · Mar 28, 2017

mariomart said:
Okay, I've just surfaced from an EPIC stint of Google researching for the watch with Soyuz Apollo dial I recently acquired.

Although I didn't find the "smoking gun" evidence I was after I did find a very relevant link between the watch dial and smoking.

In 1975 when the Soyuz Apollo mission occurred there was a collaboration between the American cigarette company Philip Morris, who provided the tobacco, and Russian company Tava, who manufactured the cigarettes. The joint venture released the cigarettes under the brand of "Soyuz Apollo". Here is a photo of the cigarette packets released in 1975.

It's pretty obvious that the graphics on the cigarette packet on the lower right have a direct tie in with the Komandirskie watch, down to the inclusion of the word "Union" on both the packet and the watch.

From this point onward I propose a hypothetical theory.

The Komandirskie watch case the dial is encased in was first produced from the year 2000 onward, which means that the dial couldn't have been released any time sooner. My research shows that up until 2015 the Soyuz Apollo brand was still being produced, but are now no longer in production. My guess is that this watch may have been part of a competition run by Soyuz Apollo for the 30th Anniversary of the actual Soyuz Apollo space rendezvous.

What do you think?

Fascinating!

historyguy

Discussion Starter · #9 · Mar 28, 2017

Thanks for that...my question would be if anyone knows whether the Luch version is real or a fantasy dial. It is interesting that its dial copies the logo from the Molnija pretty closely.

mariomart

· #10 · Mar 28, 2017

A little off topic, but I just realised that the Komandirskie Soyuz Apollo cigarette dialed watch is using the bezel commonly known as the "Ash tray bezel" lol :roll:

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dutchassasin

· #11 · Mar 28, 2017

historyguy said:
Thanks for that...my question would be if anyone knows whether the Luch version is real or a fantasy dial. It is interesting that its dial copies the logo from the Molnija pretty closely.

Design is from the medal awarded to the liquidators.

A luch watch with the same design is shown in this thread from 2008. I believe its 100% original.
https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/lost-wristwatches-chernobyl-154565.html

As for the molnija, ive read somewhere these were given to liquidators. Whether this is true i don't know.

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Chernobylite

· #12 · Jul 1, 2017

dutchassasin said:
As for Chernobyl disaster, there are molnija pocket watches:

Hello. New here, not a watch collector, but have one of these that was given to me 20 years ago during my time working at the accident site. Am looking for information prior to selling. Can you tell me anything more about the watch or firm that made it?
Possible value? Thanks.

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dutchassasin

· #13 · Jul 1, 2017 (Edited)

Chernobylite said:
Hello. New here, not a watch collector, but have one of these that was given to me 20 years ago during my time working at the accident site. Am looking for information prior to selling. Can you tell me anything more about the watch or firm that made it?
Possible value? Thanks.

Welcome to the Russian watch forums, these pocket watches are made by molnija (Молния). The factory still exists today Ð§ÐµÐ»Ñ?Ð±Ð¸Ð½Ñ?ÐºÐ¸Ð¹ Ñ?Ð°Ñ?Ð¾Ð²Ð¾Ð¹ Ð·Ð°Ð²Ð¾Ð´ Ð?Ð¾Ð»Ð½Ð¸Ñ?, Ñ?Ð¾Ñ?Ñ?Ð¸Ð¹Ñ?ÐºÐ¸Ðµ Ñ?Ð°Ñ?Ñ?
There was a rumour that these were given to Chernobyl Veterans. But you could help us clarify the story: When was this watch given to you, by whom and do you have proof? If so do you still have the wooden box that housed the pocket watch? Please post some pictures of your pocket watch as it helps us asses the value. The wooden box and provenance do increase the value.

Chernobylite

· #14 · Jul 2, 2017

I have submitted pictures and spoken with friends in Ukraine. They tell me the watch is commemorating the 10 year anniversary of the accident and was awarded to volunteers as stated on the front and rear case. I'm not sure what volunteers are being referenced and at 10 years it would have to have been been recently acquired when it was given to me.

mike.s

· #15 · Jul 2, 2017

This is fantasy galore, almost all of it. IMHO, the two-tone contraption above might have a real dial from something of the time, but that is not a mid-70s Soviet case, I'd put it as mid-late 80s or later, so not original.

Neither is this real: http://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/0psAAOSwd~RZT-83/s-l225.jpg
Neither is this: http://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/MWcAAOSwxu5ZNbSX/s-l225.jpg
Neither are these: http://i075.radikal.ru/1106/67/d224c19c6222.jpg

The Vostok could have been a tourist "marteshka" watch, but it's more complicated than that, I'll return to it below.

The cigarettes are real, I remember those well. They were made for 5 years by a Moscow factory "Ява" ("Java", not "Tava", Mario), which was considered the fanciest Soviet tobacco factory, personally sponsored by Stalin. This was the last days of detente, and by the time Soyuz and Apollo docked in 1975 the detente was pretty much done, turning into an actual "hot" war in Afghanistan short 4.5 years later. The Soviets introduced cigarette named "Kosmos" later on, they weer fancy and expensive, 50% more expensive that the already-fancy "Stolichnie" at the time (60 vs 40 kopeck). Many think that this was continuation of S-A cigarettes without American tobacco. The enterprising Russians, playing out the nostalgia violins as they often did, re-introduced the Soyuz-Apollo in 1998. Which brings us to the above Vostok watch = it was a promo watch for the new cigarette venture. The blue pack above is, indeed, the new one, the old ones where white.

BTW, I don't smoke

PS Omega did, apparently, make a commemorative Soyuz-Apollo watch: Ð¡Ð¾Ñ?Ð· - Ð?Ð¿Ð¾Ð»Ð»Ð¾Ð½ - Ð§Ð°Ñ?Ð¾Ð²Ð¾Ð¹ Ñ?Ð¾Ñ?Ñ?Ð¼ Watch.ru

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dutchassasin

· #16 · Jul 2, 2017

mike.s said:
This is fantasy galore, almost all of it. IMHO, the two-tone contraption above might have a real dial from something of the time, but that is not a mid-70s Soviet case, I'd put it as mid-late 80s or later, so not original.

Neither are these: http://i075.radikal.ru/1106/67/d224c19c6222.jpg

Couple years ago i saw a different soyuz slava on ebay, the capsule was applied just like the markers instead of the printed you are showing. That one could potentially be a legit model.

mike.s

· #17 · Jul 2, 2017

so far, none of the legitimate resources have shown any Soyuz-Apollo commemorations in Soviet wristwatches. Not sure that Slava really dd anything before going out of business. The Chinese Slava-Sozvezdie might have.

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