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Did Raketa produce its own 'franken' 24hr watches?

1794 Views 11 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  Afka, 
P
This is a question that's popped up on a few threads before, but without a definitive answer. I also emailed Raketa about it, but received only a stock reply about the company, and not an answer. Maybe Alexander or Samum can add some information.

The question is: did Raketa make and sell 24hr watches using 'converted' 2609HA movements (ie, mechanically identical to the correct 2623H 24hr movement, but with the bridge stamped "2609HA")?

There are several reasons for thinking that this may be the case:
(1) There are a huge number of such watches, in a limited range of modern, very nicely made modern dials, available on eBay and through many different sellers.
(2) Back in the 1990s, the Raketa website listed many, many "trendy" 24hr watches, often with these same modern dials. This was at a time when they were in severe difficulties, and were clearly desperate to sell watches!
(3) Most of these 24hr watches, from the 1990's Raketa website, I have *never* seen on eBay or elsewhere with true "2623H" movements.

Based on this, I suspect that Raketa saw the market for trendy 24hr watches, and made these in large numbers during the difficult times in the 90s; and that they used up existing stocks of parts (including bridges stamped "2609HA", which are fully interchangeable with the 2623H; the only other difference between the movements is two gear wheels which have different ratios for 12 or 24hr operation).

I know there are lots of stories about Raketa employees "liberating" parts (or even being paid in parts) and assembling their own watches to sell; and more stories about frankenmeisters converting 12hr movements to 24hr - and I'm sure both these stories are true to an extent. There are certainly lots of badly-assembled franken 24hr Raketas out there.

But the combination of facts 1-3 above make me think that lots of 24hr watches left the Raketa factory with 2609HA stamped on the bridges.

Can Raketa, or our resident Raketa experts Samum and Alexander, confirm or deny this?

Paul
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emoscambio
A crucial issue would be to discover who was behind the website pchz.narod.ru! Since it was hosted by a large russian portal of those days (as geocities a.s.o.) I am afraid that there wasn't a proper traceable registration as in a .ru domain.
Can anybody infirm or confirm?
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P
Interesting idea - but I think it's unlikely that the complete website would have been owned and run by anyone other than Raketa. At least that's my opinion, but maybe...

I just checked, and the Wayback Machine only has archives that go back to June 2004, not earlier...does anyone know of an earlier Raketa website? It's possible that my statement of "90's" above was wrong, and I had actually only seen the website (with its many, never-to-be-seen 24hr watches) since the mid-2000s.

Cheers,
Paul
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emoscambio
Mastere Bronikovsky is an ex employee, he could tell us more!
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P
Should we rub the magic lantern to make him appear?
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samun
That that is known to me:
1) from the story of the former worker of PChZ "Even in the 80th years, quite often, in the absence of bridges with the necessary marking at plant those molded that were available, especially at the end of the quarter. So quite really to meet hours with a double calendar and the mechanism 2614H though there has to be a bridge 2628H. And it not cutlet, and absolute original. I can tell it absolutely precisely to you how the person working many years on PChZ," i.e. at plant could put the bridge with the wrong marking
2) in order that from 2609.HA to make 2623.H it is necessary not only to change cogwheels but also to change platinum about the dial party.
3) I know, as to this day in SPb mechanisms 2609.HA are bought and remade in 2623. N.Kak modify platinum isn't known to me.
4) the 90th years was a lot of strange, at plant they could make many cooperatives many strange watch
5) to this day the made mechanisms on so many that some masters collect franken.
-------------

То что известно мне:
1) из рассказа бывшего работника ПЧЗ « Даже в 80-е годы, частенько, при отсутствии мостов с нужной маркировкой на заводе лепили те что были в наличии, особенно в конце квартала. Так что вполне реально встретить часы с двойным календарем и механизмом 2614Н, хотя должен стоять мост 2628Н. И это не котлета, а стопроцентный оригинал. Это я могу Вам совершенно точно сказать, как человек работавший много лет на ПЧЗ,» т.е. на заводе могли поставить мост с неправильной маркировкой
2) для того чтобы из 2609.НА сделать 2623.Н нужно не только поменять зубчатые колеса но и изменить платину со сторону циферблата.
3) мне известно, что и по сей день в СПб закупаются механизмы 2609.НА и переделываются в 2623.Н. Как перетачивают платину мне не известно.
4) 90-е годы было много странного, много кооперативов при заводе они могли произвести очень много странных часов
5) по сей день произведенных механизмов на столько много что некоторые мастера собирают франклены.
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P
Спасибо за эту информацию! Это очень полезно, чтобы услышать это от бывшего сотрудника Ракета.


Конечно, теперь у меня есть проблема - когда я вижу 24 часа Ракета на eBay с 2609HA мосту, я не могу сказать, если это было сделано на заводе Ракета, или кем-то снаружи ... Итак, я должен собрать эти часы или нет ... трудное решение!
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Thank you for that information! It is very useful to hear this from a former Raketa employee.
Of course, now I have a problem - when I see a 24hr Raketa on eBay with a 2609HA bridge, I cannot tell if it was made at the Raketa factory, or by someone outside...So, should I collect these watches or not... a difficult decision! :)
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schnurrp
Paul, I finally got around to satisfying my curiosity as to how exactly 2609/28 movements are converted to 24 hour function. It's not exactly easy at least for the example I investigated. Machining was necessary. This supports the theory that some of these were converted in the Raketa factory, in my opinion.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/analysis-raketa-2609-2623-24-hour-movements-894141.html
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Chascomm
phd said:
Interesting idea - but I think it's unlikely that the complete website would have been owned and run by anyone other than Raketa. At least that's my opinion, but maybe...

I just checked, and the Wayback Machine only has archives that go back to June 2004, not earlier...does anyone know of an earlier Raketa website? It's possible that my statement of "90's" above was wrong, and I had actually only seen the website (with its many, never-to-be-seen 24hr watches) since the mid-2000s.

Cheers,
Paul
Click to expand...
To the best of my recollection, I first looked at that website in the later part of 2002. At the time the catalogue only showed watches marked as being made in Russia, however at the time there were many apparently new 'Made in USSR' watches selling on ebay (usually accompanied by a story about how the factory had closed several years earlier). Such dial markings appeared on the catalogue a year or so later.

Around that time (late 2002) I wrote a semi tongue-in-cheek item on a friend's website (now expired) about 'the Raketa conspiracy' i.e. the factory pretending to be extinct in order to drive up the value of their watches on ebay :-d
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Mister Mike
There's no question that Raketa was up to some nonsense in the 90s-00s, no matter how they tried to deny it during the relaunch. You can't blame them, things were tough. I had a genuine 24 hr. Raketa that was bought at the factory store in St. Petersburg around '05. It was a cool looking watch and kept great time, but the dial seemed to be made of cardboard. They were running on fumes before the new investors came in, but they were still cranking out watches.
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Chascomm
Mister Mike said:
There's no question that Raketa was up to some nonsense in the 90s-00s, no matter how they tried to deny it during the relaunch. You can't blame them, things were tough. I had a genuine 24 hr. Raketa that was bought at the factory store in St. Petersburg around '05. It was a cool looking watch and kept great time, but the dial seemed to be made of cardboard. They were running on fumes before the new investors came in, but they were still cranking out watches.
Click to expand...
Thanks! The first firm evidence of card dials originating from the Raketa factory :-! There are a few that I've seen that I have wondered about, but in recent years such watches have been universally condemned as 'fake'.
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Afka
emoscambio said:
A crucial issue would be to discover who was behind the website pchz.narod.ru! Since it was hosted by a large russian portal of those days (as geocities a.s.o.) I am afraid that there wasn't a proper traceable registration as in a .ru domain.
Can anybody infirm or confirm?
Click to expand...
If you look at the contacts page of pchz.narod.ru, then you see Anatoly Cherdantsev as commercial director, and Maria Cherdantseva as financial director. They both are still directors of today's Raketa. Look at Ð�натолий Черданцев | Ð.уÑ�Ñ�кие чаÑ�Ñ‹: Ð.акета / Russian Watches: Raketa

I'm sure, that pchz.narod.ru was the official Raketa site.
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