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Fantastic. So to summarize:
1) 2214 is a Civil version
2) 2234 is a Military version
3) there caliber 2234 on the back is only after 1975
4) the back cover for early version would be same as for Vostok Precision, Vilolna, Almaz: is this correct?

Very possible.

Now, there could be 2234 that do not hack: hack broken or removed.
There is no such thing as Hacking 2214 馃檪
For some reason, there are a lot of Hacking 2234 with the back covers that read 2214. What happened to the original w/o the caliber or with 2234 printed? Mystery.
 

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Discussion Starter #62
Fantastic. So to summarize:
1) 2414 is a Civil version
2) 2434 is a Military version
3) there caliber 2434 on the back is only after 1975
4) the back cover for early version would be same as for Vostok Precision, Vilolna, Almaz: is this correct?

Very possible.

Now, there could be 2434 that do not hack: hack broken or removed.
There is no such thing as Hacking 2414 ��
For some reason, there are a lot of Hacking 2434 with the back covers that read 2414. What happened to the original w/o the caliber or with 2434 printed? Mystery.
Ahhh, I miswrote in my post 24xx instead of 22xx! What I meant to say is that the original 2214 had both hacking/non-hacking versions, and the hacking version was later renamed the 2234.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
I have corrected my latest post. Bpmurray, correct yours and we can maybe avoid some of the confusion
Fixed it. I do disagree with this:

There is no such thing as Hacking 2214
The passports I posted show that from 1965-1975, there were two versions of 2214 -- one hacking, one non-hacking. The passports highlight that Komandirskie's of this era should have the stop-seconds function, and also specify the 2214 movement; the only way to square these statements is that there was a hacking 2214. See also this thread on chasy.ru: ?????? 2214 - ??? ?? ????? - ????? ????????? ?????

This highlights that a catalog even differentiated 2214 movements: the Komandirskie model was identified by 2214.1, while the others were simply 2214. I believe this indicates a hacking 2214. The introduction of 2234 was simply a re-branding of the hacking 2214, to clear up the different functionality.
 

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I have corrected my latest post. Bpmurray, correct yours and we can maybe avoid some of the confusion
Fixed it. I do disagree with this:

There is no such thing as Hacking 2214
The passports I posted show that from 1965-1975, there were two versions of 2214 -- one hacking, one non-hacking. The passports highlight that Komandirskie's of this era should have the stop-seconds function, and also specify the 2214 movement; the only way to square these statements is that there was a hacking 2214. See also this thread on chasy.ru: ?????? 2214 - ??? ?? ????? - ????? ????????? ?????

This highlights that a catalog even differentiated 2214 movements: the Komandirskie model was identified by 2214.1, while the others were simply 2214. I believe this indicates a hacking 2214. The introduction of 2234 was simply a re-branding of the hacking 2214, to clear up the different functionality.
Ok. Now I understand what you meant. And this also explains why we have so many Hacking watches with 2214 on the back. This is possibly a legit/original setup and it is just initially this caliber (with hack) was not branched out as an independent and distinct 2234. And passports and back cover would list 2214. Right?
 

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Hi guys

This one is brought back to life, runs very well ... what about the hands on the early "komandirskie" types ? (second hand with an arrow or not ?)
what about coating ? gold or not ?

thank you, take care.



 

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Hi guys

This one is brought back to life, runs very well ... what about the hands on the early "komandirskie" types ? (second hand with an arrow or not ?)
what about coating ? gold or not ?

thank you, take care.



It look its hand painted, very rare dial made in 1960s, not sure about arrow, it could be not original
 

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Discussion Starter #71
Hi guys

This one is brought back to life, runs very well ... what about the hands on the early "komandirskie" types ? (second hand with an arrow or not ?)
what about coating ? gold or not ?

thank you, take care.
Looks like a standard "bar" indices Komandirskie. There is no way to tell about the case, this same dial/hands configuration was available in both gold and chrome plated. The seconds hand is correct, and shows that its from the early end of the production run of these. You could pick up a pristine one of these for maybe $30, but keep that seconds hand safe as if you get into the very early versions, you'll almost certainly need it to make a repair.

It look its hand painted, very rare dial made in 1960s, not sure about arrow, it could be not original
This is the most common Komandirskie dial there is, not rare at all unfortunately.
 

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Thanks, right ... not rare, but runs smoothly now, bought it for $8 ...., I fitted a new cristal for $3, so $11 for a nice running soviet little piece of horology, that's quite good.
kind regards
Philippe
 

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15437541

Does anyone know where these fit in?
Note the truly black dial (not just dark grey) and the outline around the date window.
 

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I have ordered 15 2234SU movements to pratice disassembly and reassembly. I think I could make a couple working movements out of them and I wish to assemble watches so what is the best way to get a case and dial for those movements ?
 

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I have ordered 15 2234SU movements to pratice disassembly and reassembly. I think I could make a couple working movements out of them and I wish to assemble watches so what is the best way to get a case and dial for those movements ?
best way: to get donors. Buy old watches. Some have good movements. Some good cases/dials. No other ways knowns to me.
 

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View attachment 15437541
Does anyone know where these fit in?
Note the truly black dial (not just dark grey) and the outline around the date window.
this is from 70s. In the catalog the Dials (digits) are a bit different for the square watches. Maybe this dial is from a round case? Not sure. But I have it in the round case. Also from 70s. But mine is w/o date outline. :)

15437935
15437941
 

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Nice watch! Yes, I'm pretty sure that your round case watch above is the correct, original combination. (Note that your dial is dark grey.) You see these with both the earlier arrow seconds hand like yours, and others with the cupid style seconds hand. I believe both are correct.

The ones in the square cases came with 2 styles of numerals; the ones you've shown in the catalog pages with the really squarish numerals, and the ones with numerals similar to the round case models as shown in my photo. The difference from the round case dials being the frame around the date window and the color. It also should be noted that there were two distinct styles of these square cases used, each available with gold plated and chrome. On these models, the hands color will match the case color, so the chrome cases should have chrome hands (while all the earlier Chistopols always had gold plated hands, regardless of the case color). I must admit, if I had one of these square ones, I would probably re case it into a round case. I know it would be a sin, but it would be fully reversible and it's my habit to mod my contemporary Amphibias. I never seem to leave them stock, but I hesitate to do the same with vintage pieces.

The interchangeability of parts on these watches tends to make us suspicious at every turn. We do run the risk of assuming that an actually innocent, bone-stock watch is a franken if it has a combination of parts from a transitional period.



We also cannot assume that there isn't a lot of overlap with different dials being offered at the same time, just like now.
It's hard to confirm things, because apparently the early Komandirskies did not appear in standard Vostok catalogs.
I suspect that what the OP is calling first generation, Gen 1.5a, and Gen 1.5b may have all appeared concurrently. I say this because I've seen a 1.5a with an inscription on the back from 1966, and we know that gen 1 was introduced in 1965. Of course that cover may not be original to the watch...
I cannot prove it, but I believe that it's possible that the Gen 1 dial may have been later sold with standard Komandirskie hands, after the necktie hands were decided to be exclusive to the Amphibia?(I could be 100% wrong on this, but I keep seeing them out there)
I also believe that the most common 12/6/9 bar indices dial (Gen 2 -dial no. 174 for black) predates what he calls the Gen 2-1/2 13/24 version ( dial no. 392) because the Gen 2 appears with both the plain arrow seconds hand, as well as the cupid seconds hand. But the Gen 2-1/2 is only seen with the cupid hand. Also, it should be noted that these Gen 2-1/2s appear with chrome hands to match the color of the chrome case. (there may be some overlap with some early ones having the gold hands with the chrome case?)
I believe all the early models were available with both gold plated (case no. 383) and chrome cases (case no. 381), and that all were originally with hacking versions of 2214 (of which the hacking version later got its 2234 designation). I can't tell when they started getting the "2214" stamp on their case backs. There are also Vostok branded watches which are just like gen 2 komandirskies, but without hacking and without the star.

I wish that there were someone, like some old retired Russian watchmaker who was there, back in the day, who could set all this straight, or if someone could show some period catalogs to corroborate.
 
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