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Discussion Starter #1
To wind or not to wind....I know this has been addressed before, but I haven't totally been satisfied with the responses I've read. I'm wondering if it is ok to occasionally hand wind an ETA 2824-2 movement. I've read in previous forum posts that it is generally not a good idea because it grinds down some of the internal gears that happen to be made of a softer metal (or something along those lines). However where I have really seen this do acutal documented damage is in watches that were not serviced for years while the owner contiued to manually wind the movement. I'm hypothesizing that the damage done by the manual winding occured because of improper maintinence (i.e. no maintinence).

Would it be fair to say that as long as the movement is properly lubricated and checked every few years manual winding isn't a big deal? I would think that ETA with it's quality standards wouldn't produce a movement prone to failure because of a built in feature. Obviously automatics are best wound when worn on the wrist or on a winder, but every time I set my watch when I'm traveling, or when it runs out a juice I notice that simply screwing down the crown winds the movement. I want to know that this isn't causing any undue harm to the watch.

Also, on a slightly different topic do miyota movements have the same reported problems?
 

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To wind or not to wind....I know this has been addressed before, but I haven't totally been satisfied with the responses I've read. I'm wondering if it is ok to occasionally hand wind an ETA 2824-2 movement.
Yes.
 

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If you fully hand wind every day you will likely wear the crown, tube and threads (if any) sooner than if you just use the very efficient winding rotor. If you wear the watch for one day there should be sufficient power reserve to allow it to rest for one day. Just wear your watch every day and only the time should need to be reset every few weeks. Otherwise just let the watch run down.
 

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That's a little glib you guys as though you're replying to an annoying OP, which is not the case. Jcp, you're right about the handwinding "softer metal" issue with the 2824, which WUS member/watchmaker Lysanderxiii brought up a couple years ago. He mentioned the 7750 as being comparatively robust, but obviously he's not done a comprehensive survey of automatic movements, so I don't know about your Miyota question.

The "softer metal" problem, if it exists, seems odd ETA would cheap out there. I mean how much can a tiny harder metal cost? Nonetheless, you make a million movements, save a couple pennies, they add up.

Russia's Vostok is one of the few watch companies to be clear about usage of their hand winding feature on their automatics. Wind it 10-15 times, put it on your wrist. It seems clear (well maybe not clear) that automatic watch movements are not made stronger than their intended duty, as very part-time hand winders.

I don't know the failure rate of hand-wound watches compared with automatics--either way it's a friction process. I'll do what Vostok says, 10-15 times then let my wrist do the rest.

You make a tool, you explain its use to the buyer.
 
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Don't forget that the automatic winding rotor was designed to minimize the need for watch owners to hand wind their watch. Automatic watches are designed to be worn day after day with only infrequent owner intervention to correct the time and date. Handwind watches were known for needing periodic crown and crown tube replacement and automatic watches should rarely need that repair.

That's a little glib you guys as though you're replying to an annoying OP, which is not the case. Jcp, you're right about the handwinding "softer metal" issue with the 2824, which WUS member/watchmaker Lysanderxiii brought up a couple years ago. He mentioned the 7750 as being comparatively robust, but obviously he's not done a comprehensive survey of automatic movements, so I don't know about your Miyota question.

The "softer metal" problem, if it exists, seems odd ETA would cheap out there. I mean how much can a tiny harder metal cost? Nonetheless, you make a million movements, save a couple pennies, they add up.

Russia's Vostok is one of the few watch companies to be clear about usage of their hand winding feature on their automatics. Wind it 10-15 times, put it on your wrist. It seems clear (well maybe not clear) that automatic watch movements are not made stronger than their intended duty, as very part-time hand winders.

I don't know the failure rate of hand-wound watches compared with automatics--either way it's a friction process. I'll do what Vostok says, 10-15 times then let my wrist do the rest.

You make a tool, you explain its use to the buyer.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks Sean...The input is appreciated. I certainly didn't mean to be annoying or incite any loathing with the post. I'm relatively new to the watch world and have recently bought a few of my first "respectable" watches all with ETA 2824's. The hand winding issue seems to be in my opinion a shortfall of the movement. It's strange to me that it's marketed (at least with micro-brands) as a "workhorse" movement when it's vulnerable to this kind of issue. Though from what else I've read the people encountering the most difficulty with their ETA movements are people who don't get them serviced regularly. As a watchmaker recently put it to me "If it ain't broke don't fix it" absolutely does not apply to watches.


That's a little glib you guys as though you're replying to an annoying OP, which is not the case. Jcp, you're right about the handwinding "softer metal" issue with the 2824, which WUS member/watchmaker Lysanderxiii brought up a couple years ago. He mentioned the 7750 as being comparatively robust, but obviously he's not done a comprehensive survey of automatic movements, so I don't know about your Miyota question.

The "softer metal" problem, if it exists, seems odd ETA would cheap out there. I mean how much can a tiny harder metal cost? Nonetheless, you make a million movements, save a couple pennies, they add up.

Russia's Vostok is one of the few watch companies to be clear about usage of their hand winding feature on their automatics. Wind it 10-15 times, put it on your wrist. It seems clear (well maybe not clear) that automatic watch movements are not made stronger than their intended duty, as very part-time hand winders.

I don't know the failure rate of hand-wound watches compared with automatics--either way it's a friction process. I'll do what Vostok says, 10-15 times then let my wrist do the rest.

You make a tool, you explain its use to the buyer.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I don't know if I quite agree with you on the point that auto movements are supposed to require "infrequent intervention." ETA's basic grade 2824-2 can gain (or lose) up to 30 seconds a day if I'm not mistaken. About once every two weeks or so I have to set my ETA based watches back about five minutes. I'd be disappointed if a movement (assuming proper maintinence) couldn't handle this routine wear and tear over time.


Don't forget that the automatic winding rotor was designed to minimize the need for watch owners to hand wind their watch. Automatic watches are designed to be worn day after day with only infrequent owner intervention to correct the time and date. Handwind watches were known for needing periodic crown and crown tube replacement and automatic watches should rarely need that repair.
 

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If the watch is wound down, then giving it a decent wind to start it will no do harm. Winding it unnecessarily thereafter makes little sense - although there will be a few people who simply don't move enough, or with enough range of movement, to keep an auto going.
 

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The hand winding issue seems to be in my opinion a shortfall of the movement. It's strange to me that it's marketed (at least with micro-brands) as a "workhorse" movement when it's vulnerable to this kind of issue.
People say "workhorse" movement when they don't know what else to say about an inexpensive movement like Seiko and Miyota.

I commend Vostok for at least addressing this issue of winding automatics: that they're automatics and not to be treated like a mechanical non-auto watch.
 

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Though from what else I've read the people encountering the most difficulty with their ETA movements are people who don't get them serviced regularly. As a watchmaker recently put it to me "If it ain't broke don't fix it" absolutely does not apply to watches.
Hard to give credence to one watchmaker's possibly self-serving statement.
 

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You make a tool, you explain its use to the buyer.
Agree with sentiment, but seems hypothetical in light of what watch manufactures actually do. With all the WIS' on all the forums and blogs, which include some serious watchmakers, it would seem that someone could lay down a bright line on the issue.
 

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Agree with sentiment, but seems hypothetical in light of what watch manufactures actually do. With all the WIS' on all the forums and blogs, which include some serious watchmakers, it would seem that someone could lay down a bright line on the issue.
Lysanderxiii already has.
 

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Why are we visiting this topic again? The question has been answered a hundred times in dozens of threads.

It is fine to wind a 2824-2. The intended purpose of the winding mechanism is to get the watch going, and let the automatic winding charge the rest of the reserve up.
 

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Why are we visiting this topic again? The question has been answered a hundred times in dozens of threads.

Gee, what an unusual circumstance.
 

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Not sure what you refer to with your selective quote.
I'm referring to the fact that most threads are repetitious and we have to put up with it, for the sake of the newcomers.
 

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Also, because I'm not a "workhorse" movement, I enjoy summarizing for other people what I've learned here. Call it a guilty pleasure.
 

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Hard to give credence to one watchmaker's possibly self-serving statement.
This seems a little cynical, if I may say. Self-serving? Watch companies recommend service (Rolex every 3 to 5 years, co-axial Omega 10 to 12), so what the watchmaker says seems correct.
 
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