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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all,
Recently I noticed that my ETA 2824-2 movement was difficult to wind. After a couple revolutions I realized what was happening. When winding via the crown, it's actually spinning the rotor as well.
Anyone come across this? The watch is less than a year old and under warranty, so I have the option to send it in for repair if necessary.
Thanks.
 

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Hey all,
Recently I noticed that my ETA 2824-2 movement was difficult to wind. After a couple revolutions I realized what was happening. When winding via the crown, it's actually spinning the rotor as well.
Anyone come across this? The watch is less than a year old and under warranty, so I have the option to send it in for repair if necessary.
Thanks.
That's a symptom of malfunctioning reversing wheels (quite common, but usually on older watches that are closer to their service limit where the reversing wheels are gummed up). Usually cleaning and lubrication will solve the problem (unless damaged and in need of replacement). Stop manually winding it immediately and send it in for warranty service.

**************

Here's an explanation by (and with credit to) Al of Archer Watches.

Inside the automatic winding module of the watch, there are two (in a bi-directional winding watch like the 2824) reversing wheels. The wheels look like this:





The red arrow points to a series of pawls inside the wheel, which is actually two wheels in one. When spun in one direction, the two halves of the wheel lock and spin as one. When spun in the other direction, one half spins and the other does not. This ability allows you to manually wind your watch, without having the rotor spin inside the case when you wind using the crown.

This wheel is the weak spot in an automatic winding watch.

Actually that's not fair - in reality these wheels work as hard as anything inside your watch. They are under a lot of load from both manual winding and when the rotor is winding the watch. They change directions an estimated 1 to 10 million times a year according to one text I have. So indeed it is amazing that they last for a full 5 years between servicing - that's between 5 and 50 million direction changes.

So what happens when these reversing wheels fail? Well you may notice that when you wind the crown, you can feel the rotor flying around as you wind. If you feel this, stop, and get the watch in for service. The wheels are no longer spinning freely in one direction, and you risk damage to those fine teeth on the ratchet wheel when you wind with the rotor spinning like that. Those fine teeth are now driving that big heavy rotor around and around, and they usually can't take that sort of punishment for long before the teeth get stripped off.

So to conclude, in a properly functioning, well maintained, and good quality automatic watch, there is little risk in winding it manually.

Hope this helps. As always if you have any questions, please let me know.

Cheers, Al
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That's a symptom of malfunctioning reversing wheels (quite common, but usually on older watches that are closer to their service limit where the reversing wheels are gummed up). Usually cleaning and lubrication will solve the problem (unless damaged and in need of replacement). Stop manually winding it immediately and send it in for warranty service.
Great info, thanks BrentYYC (and Al).
 

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I seem to recall reading more than a few times that the ETA 2824 has relatively fragile keyless works and issues from hand winding too often are not totally uncommon. I have one watch with an ETA 2824 and I try to avoid hand winding it whenever possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I seem to recall reading more than a few times that the ETA 2824 has relatively fragile keyless works and issues from hand winding too often are not totally uncommon. I have one watch with an ETA 2824 and I try to avoid hand winding it whenever possible.
Probably sound advice. In my searching I saw several that had issues when manually winding the 2824. I tend to rotate between about 4 watches so out of habit, when I'd grab that one, I'd give it a good winding. I'll definitely avoid that in the future with this movement.
 

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I was thinking about this the other day as I've got a 2824 in my stash…

Before I rant, let me ask this: is it common for automatics to have weaker hand winding systems?

[rant]
For a company with the size and influence of ETA to continue producing a common movement with a basic problem like this is b*llsh!t. Sorry. Maybe I could have mine modded to remove the hand winding mechanism just like I removed the broken air conditioner from my last car.
 

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I was thinking about this the other day as I've got a 2824 in my stash…

Before I rant, let me ask this: is it common for automatics to have weaker hand winding systems?

[rant]
For a company with the size and influence of ETA to continue producing a common movement with a basic problem like this is b*llsh!t. Sorry. Maybe I could have mine modded to remove the hand winding mechanism just like I removed the broken air conditioner from my last car.
No.
 

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I'm not going to comment on this topic, there are a few here that think you can crank away on a 2824 and have no issues whatsoever and will aggressively stand behind that in spite of what the professionals say, you know who you are. Obviously you know where I stand on this ongoing issue.
 

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I have the same issue with my ETA, and noticed it very soon after buying the watch brand new.

It seems to be a very common problem with some ETA models, so I am not going to bother having it fixed as I suspect it will just fail again.

It it serves me well as a occasional camping watch because I wear it several days in a row, otherwise my solution is to just not buy anymore ETA 28XX watches.
 

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I'm not going to comment on this topic, there are a few here that think you can crank away on a 2824 and have no issues whatsoever and will aggressively stand behind that in spite of what the professionals say, you know who you are. Obviously you know where I stand on this ongoing issue.
+1
All one has to do is think about the design for a moment to understand why this is so. The rotor wound watch movement was designed so that owners would rarely if ever have to hand wind the movement. The rotor is a very efficient device that allows normal arm motion to keep the watch wound and running as long as the watch is worn daily. As a consequence movement makers put more money into designing a robust rotor system and less into the crown winding side.

Those of us who can't suppress the urge to hand wind their watch every day should switch to watches with hand wound movements that were designed to take that extra use and wear.
 

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+1
All one has to do is think about the design for a moment to understand why this is so. The rotor wound watch movement was designed so that owners would rarely if ever have to hand wind the movement. The rotor is a very efficient device that allows normal arm motion to keep the watch wound and running as long as the watch is worn daily. As a consequence movement makers put more money into designing a robust rotor system and less into the crown winding side.

Those of us who can't suppress the urge to hand wind their watch every day should switch to watches with hand wound movements that were designed to take that extra use and wear.

Exactly!!!!
 

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That's a symptom of malfunctioning reversing wheels (quite common, but usually on older watches that are closer to their service limit where the reversing wheels are gummed up). Usually cleaning and lubrication will solve the problem (unless damaged and in need of replacement). Stop manually winding it immediately and send it in for warranty service
Brent has written the answer, stuck the stamp on and licked the envelope on that one. |>|>
 

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[rant]
For a company with the size and influence of ETA to continue producing a common movement with a basic problem like this is b*llsh!t. Sorry. Maybe I could have mine modded to remove the hand winding mechanism just like I removed the broken air conditioner from my last car.

Don't forget to re-hook up that serpentine belt on the watch, when you remove that culprit...
 
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So would it be safe to assume that if your 28xx stalls, some gentle but strong shakes to get running and then wearing non-stop for a few days is safer than winding crown. Also, is it better to keep on a winder (maybe a few more revolutions than necessary) than to need to hand wind every month or so? Ive noticed on my SW200 that the recommended TPD ends up being insufficient to mimic regular daily wear...
 

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So would it be safe to assume that if your 28xx stalls, some gentle but strong shakes to get running and then wearing non-stop for a few days is safer than winding crown. Also, is it better to keep on a winder (maybe a few more revolutions than necessary) than to need to hand wind every month or so? Ive noticed on my SW200 that the recommended TPD ends up being insufficient to mimic regular daily wear...
I have that exact same problem with an SW-300 equipped watch. It stalls unless it gets a lot of winding. Once it get wound to a certain point TPD are fine on a winder but that's usually more than a days wear. I don't move around a lot at work. Desk jockey. I don't have that problem with any other mechanical watch I own which are Japanese (seiko/orient, miyota, citizen) Swiss(2824, 2836) Russian (vostok, poljot) Chinese (Sea-Gull)

Interesting.
 

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I had the same problem with a 2824 that I only wound to get it going. What I'd like to know if you're not supposed to hand wind it, why have that function?
It's a supplementary function on an automatic watch. Just a few careful rotations of the crown to get it going should be fine. Just don't treat the 2824 like a hand cranker.
 

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No.
So would it be safe to assume that if your 28xx stalls, some gentle but strong shakes to get running and then wearing non-stop for a few days is safer than winding crown. Also, is it better to keep on a winder (maybe a few more revolutions than necessary) than to need to hand wind every month or so? Ive noticed on my SW200 that the recommended TPD ends up being insufficient to mimic regular daily wear...
 
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