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Discussion Starter #1
I've been hanging out on F71 long enough to know that there are at least a handful of preferred alternatives to the ETA 2824 movement. Ones that immediately come to mind:

Sellita SW200
SeaGull ST2136
Miyota 8215 / 9015
Soprod A10

There may be others...the question then becomes...is any one of these clones superior in terms of build and reliability? Also, I apologize if this is ignoring some old thread about it...no searches turned anything up. My question is...all other things being equal, would you be more inclined to buy a micro brand such as a Halios if they used something other than Miyota for instance? Is it that big of a deal ultimately, or is QC solid across the board?
 

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I don't (knowingly) have experience of the Soprod or Seagull, but I don't think I'd think much differently about having a Sellita SW200 or Miyota 9015 instead of a 2824-2.

I'd expect to pay about the same for the Sellita and a bit less for the Miyota (because it won't be 'Swiss Made'), but I wouldn't have a strong preference either way.

The 8215 is not in the same league.
 

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I have a handful of 2824s, a couple 9015s, and one ST2136.

Honestly, I can not tell the difference. Even the fabled Miyota "marble in a pop can" noise is barely discernible, and I (think I) can still hear. I guess time will tell with respect to reliability, but even that is a bit of a crapshoot. Reading stories on the internet does not give you any sort of reliable sample size to determine whether there are actually reliability issues, and even then, there are WAY too many variable between manufacturers, end users and watch designs to draw any useful conclusions.

In short, I don't really care at all if a movement is Swiss Made or not, and in the increasingly global economy, I don't think it makes sense for anybody to care much. Beyond history, and possibly elitism, it just doesn't matter much any more.
 

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Plus with the Swiss-branded movements especially you can order different grades. How much of a functional difference that makes vs. purely aesthetic is open for debate.

The 8215 is fine. I'd buy a watch with one, but I'm not kidding myself that it's an equivalent movement. I don't necessarily mind not having to pay pricing premiums when it's not necessary though.

I see criticism of watches that have enough non-Japanese content to be marked as "made in XYZ country" but use a Miyota or SII movement and get raked over the coals for it. I don't really think that criticism is necessary.

In the non-affordable watch market, there seems to maybe be some prejudice against Sellita as "just cloning ETA", which I likewise believe to be unfair.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Looking at the comparison Der Amf posted up above, the biggest issue is perhaps QC. It'd be interesting to see who wound up with winners and losers of the same variants. It would take some time and fiddling to get to the bottom of that sort of thing though, I suspect.
 

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T2rnqsXrVXXXXXXXXX_!!831659287.jpg

Prefer the SB1 myself.
Unsure where/what base though.
Bi-directional winding; positive and easily found date change position; smooth handwind; solid feel to the crown.
Probably not an ETA clone then ;)
 

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Buy Chinese, LEARN AND DIY service ... definitely up

Buy Chinese, pay for a reliable service . . . are you up or down? ;)
 
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Sellita SW200 - Direct replacement with ETA 2824
SeaGull ST2136 - Clones of 2836 (day date version of 2824) Functionally very similar. Build quality is very decent but as seen in the disassembly by watch guy, suffers from lubrication and minor QC issue. Other watchmaker even mentioned certain portion of the manufacturing component such as plate posts are actually better made vs ETA.
Miyota 8215 / 9015 - not a clone at all, only similarity is that both are 11.5 ligne (size) movement. 8215 and 9015 are both uni-directional and the relatively new 9015 adds hacking, manual winding and increase beat rate to 28800, slim profile.
Soprod A10 - Direct swap of ETA 2892.

Worth mentioning, not all ETA are created equal. The comparative study by watch guy was not comparing the base level standard grade ETA to Chinese mov. That Fortis 2824 is either an upgraded standard or an Elaboré. As plain as it already looks, one can expect much worst decorative finishing on base base standard grade ETA. For details on ETA grades, see here - https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/smoke-mirrors-part-1-eta-grades-explained-458060.html

Another point. Although Chinese movements do have surface finishing on "non-functional surfaces" - plates, bridges... etc to make them look fancy. The critical area of timekeeping of a movement is all about functional surfaces - pivots, gear train teeth, shape of the teeth of the pallet. ETA and its cousins from Soprod and Sellita do excel in these critical areas. Lack of lubrication will not effect the short term timekeeping ability, but will cause excessive wear in due time. But one can argue at the given price point (sub $100), the seagull is basically a disposable movement vs ETA.

So yeah, at the given moment. We do not have a CLONE that is superior. Seagull's clone is comparable at a fraction of the price and good enough. Miyota 9015 is not clone but I would consider it just as good as the ETA from a functional and QC perspective at 1/2 the price. 8215 and NH35A are not in the same league but give you good QC and well priced if you are willing to live with the lack of some functions

I've been hanging out on F71 long enough to know that there are at least a handful of preferred alternatives to the ETA 2824 movement. Ones that immediately come to mind:

Sellita SW200
SeaGull ST2136
Miyota 8215 / 9015
Soprod A10

There may be others...the question then becomes...is any one of these clones superior in terms of build and reliability? Also, I apologize if this is ignoring some old thread about it...no searches turned anything up. My question is...all other things being equal, would you be more inclined to buy a micro brand such as a Halios if they used something other than Miyota for instance? Is it that big of a deal ultimately, or is QC solid across the board?
 
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I would have no problems going with a Soprod A10. Some excellent watches have them and been using them for years.

Also the Seiko 6R15
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Also the Seiko 6R15
Isn't the 6r15 proprietary...as in you'd only see it in Seikos and Citizens?

Also while I loved the look of my SARB065 Cocktail Time, I wasn't in love with the 6r15 movement. It was decent, but it just didn't seem all that special either, especially considering the rotor noise (though that may have just been indicative of a need for lubrication)...
 

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SOPROD A10 is in a totally different league/competition.
 
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On the OWC site I found this useful little chart showing the relationship between the ST18, A10 and 2892:

moves.JPG

OWC say "The Soprod A-10 offers significant advantages over its competitor the 2892-A2, hence it is our choice for our "Flag Ship" models."
 

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Not sure about what they meant by "significant: price? they are about the same to my understanding

The Soprod A-10 offers significant advantages over its competitor the 2892-A2,

On the OWC site I found this useful little chart showing the relationship between the ST18, A10 and 2892:

View attachment 1502374

OWC say "The Soprod A-10 offers significant advantages over its competitor the 2892-A2, hence it is our choice for our "Flag Ship" models."
 

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Discussion Starter #17
But ultimately what else would make a manufacturer choose a SW200 clone versus a Miyota 9015 or ST2130 besides pricing?
 

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Not sure about what they meant by "significant: price? they are about the same to my understanding
The Soprod A-10 offers significant advantages over its competitor the 2892-A2
Perhaps more... Jewels?
 

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We seen that argument with the Seiko 7S26, 36... jewels don't translate into better anything after a given point ... unless if you are from a marketing point of view

Perhaps more... Jewels?
 

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Isn't the 6r15 proprietary...as in you'd only see it in Seikos and Citizens?
You'll only see the movement labelled as 6R15 in a Seiko but it does come in other brands labelled as the NE15. It would never be in a Citizen though.

Also I think the Soprod A10 is a Seiko. Based off of the 4L25.
 
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