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I've recently bought a Christopher Ward C60, but it's gained around 5 minutes in less than 3 weeks. Is this within tolerance levels? Seems like too much to me, but not long been into autos so not sure. Any opinions welcome please.

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I thought "positional error" has to do with accuracy of the watch placed in different positions, and "isochronism" is the accuracy as the watch unwinds and loses power? I'm sure it's more complex than that
 

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Thanks for your reply, but I've no idea what iscochcronism or positional error is. Am I just looking at the daily rate?

You can of course look at the daily rate but you need to be more precise, "around" 5 min in "less than 3 weeks" is not very precise to draw a conclusion. However, it is not that easy. You also need to know what grade your ETA movement is to know what daily rate/ deviation can be expected.

Isochronism: Meaning the watch runs at the same rate whether the watch is fully wound, or only partially wound.

Positional error: A watch runs at different rates in different positions, do a search here on WUS. Members often report on watches running different in different positions, dial up, dial down, crown up, crown down....
The rate in wear is an average of these known errors and therefore varies with different wearers. A good wrist-watch is tested and regulated in six positions, dial up, dial down, button up, button down, button right, button left. Worst errors are kept to the button left position, which occurs rarely with the watch on the outside of the left wrist. (A precision watch on the inside of the left wrist will give its worst performance.) A good watch which is a few seconds fast can be brought to time by leaving it on edge overnight, as it loses slightly in this position. Cheap wristwatches are checked and regulated in two positions.
For more info? Alliance Horlogère.
 

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I've recently bought a Christopher Ward C60, but it's gained around 5 minutes in less than 3 weeks. Is this within tolerance levels? Seems like too much to me, but not long been into autos so not sure. Any opinions welcome please.

Thanks
Ok, if your numbers are correct then your watch gained 300 seconds over 21 days. Or it averaged a gain of 14 seconds per day, which is a bit high but not bad for a spring powered mechanical watch that was not set up for chronometer performance. The unvarnished truth is that mechanical watches are inaccurate and inconsistent time keepers when compared to watches with quartz movements. But we love 'em anyway.

However, I think you should conduct a more precise test of your watch before calling CW. Set your watch to the second using time.gov Then just wear it for 14 full days without hand winding or resetting. Then compare your watch to time.gov and compute the average daily error. You may find that the error drops down to between 5 to 10 seconds per day.

For those of us who don't have a testing machine the most useful number from that chart is the average daily rate. That number describes the range of acceptable daily error for various grades of the 2824 movement. Note that all grades specify an error rate of several seconds per day.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I did do an accurate test. I set it to the second using the atomic clock 3 weeks ago and it's gained 5 mins like I said. So I take it from the replies that it is running too fast?
 

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I did do an accurate test. I set it to the second using the atomic clock 3 weeks ago and it's gained 5 mins like I said. So I take it from the replies that it is running too fast?
How did it go from "around five minutes in less than three weeks" to exactly three weeks and exactly five minutes?

But, assuming that the watch is in all positions equally, and that it is fully wound at all times, it's about 2sec/day out of spec. However, if you're taking it off at night and putting it in a fast position, or not wearing it enough to keep it fully wound, then it might be in spec and just falling on the foul side of isochronism and positional error. You're not giving us enough information to give you a proper answer. How are you storing it at night, for example?
 

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It depends on what grade CW uses? I think they put elabore grade movements into their watches that are not COSC certified? if yes then your watch is running fast and out of spec.


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Also, they use ETA 2824-2 and Sellita SW 200 and there's no way of knowing which one you have unless you open the case back.
 

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Tudor Pelagos I just started tracking it two days ago, wear it every day set it on the dresser at night Dial Side Up I believe it has a 2824-2 as well





A spring Drive is a whole different beast just for comparison



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A suggestion is to reset it now, then time it once a day, at the same time of day, for the next week. See what results you get. That should give you more info, and if needed, sent back to CW for regulation.

If it's outside of +/- 20s/day (as claimed on the C60 webpage), then something might be amiss.

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Tudor Pelagos I just started tracking it two days ago, wear it every day set it on the dresser at night Dial Side Up I believe it has a 2824-2 as well





A spring Drive is a whole different beast just for comparison



Sent from one of my four iPads

Thats pretty poor for a Pelagos and probably falls short of Tudors target, I would speak to your AD about it if you're not happy about it. For reference I owned a Pelagos and it was only off by 1 second a day
 

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Thats pretty poor for a Pelagos and probably falls short of Tudors target, I would speak to your AD about it if you're not happy about it. For reference I owned a Pelagos and it was only off by 1 second a day
I know, it's real bummer, I had an Oris with a Sellita SW220 and it was off by 1.5 seconds a day, I'll definitely have it tweaked


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Read this from (Watch Accuracy & Service Tips - PrestigeTime.com the watch experts) this will enlighten your expectation on mechanical watch, what to expect to avoid frustration o|

Accuracy of Mechanical Wristwatches - What to Expect


In the world of mechanics, anything assembled of small parts which are capable of maintaining 99% accuracy would be considered a top-tiered piece of machinery. To put things in perspective, if a watch is only 99.9% accurate it would be off by 1 minute and 27 seconds per day - which is unacceptable in the luxury watch world.

Accuracy is dependant on a few variables, such as:

Position:
Due to gravity a watch will gain or loose more time if laid to rest in a single position. The balance wheel has been adjusted to compensate for losses and gains in different positions. An adjusted watch should perform overall within the specification when worn throughout the day. If you remove the watch at night you may want to find the optimum position that will compensate for drift during wear.Watches are typically adjusted to between 2 - 8 positions:
1. Dial Up
2. Crown Down
3. Dial Down
4. Crown Left
5. Crown Up
6. Crown Right
7. Half-way position crown up
8. Half-way position crown down

A watch adjust to 2 positions has been adjusted to the first 2 positions, a watch that has been adjusted to 4 positions has generally been adjusted to the above 4 positions & so on.

Temperature:
The environment may have an impact on how accurate the watch operates. Temperature changes expand and contract many of the parts, changing the dimension and shapes - especially the balance wheel and hairspring. In modern watches most materials and designs are able to compensate for the changes and maintain a consistent rate. This is generally not a problem unless the watch is constantly in extreme weather environments and is corrected by a very simple regulation.


The standard acceptable accuracy of mechanical wristwatches is as follows:

Modern Mechanical non-COSC Certified watch
Worst Case Scenario+/-10 seconds per day99.988% accuracy
Typical+/-5 seconds per day99.994% accuracy
Excellent+/-3 seconds per day99.996% accuracy


Modern Mechanical COSC Certified watch
Worst Case Scenario+6/-4 seconds per day99.994% accuracy
Typical+/-3 seconds per day99.996% accuracy
Excellent+/- 1 seconds per day99.998% accuracy


It is important to understand that a fresh watch off the shelf may need a break-in period of a month or so. This allows the watch to find its beat and distribute the lubricants evenly. If you find the watch not to be as accurate as you would expect after the break-in period, there are generally two courses of action to increase accuracy - both being minor in nature, but require competent watchmakers to perform:

Regulation - if the watch runs consistently too fast or too slow - the keyword being "consistent". The solution would be to regulate the beat rate accordingly. This is a very simple and relatively quick procedure achieved by turning a screw. With the appropriate time-measuring machinery a qualified watchmaker can accomplish this in a matter of minutes. This procedure is probably one of the most common tasks for a watchmaker.

Adjustment - when a watch is fast or slow or does not have a consistent rate, especially in different positions. The balance wheel needs to be adjusted to compensate for the different positions. Although this too is a simple procedure, it does require a little more time to correct as each position needs to be monitored and adjusted.
 

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I did do an accurate test. I set it to the second using the atomic clock 3 weeks ago and it's gained 5 mins like I said. So I take it from the replies that it is running too fast?
The atomic clock as in time.gov or a home atomic clock? If the latter has it synced with WWV regularly? If you are sure that the length of the test and amount of error is correct and you are still dissatisfied then consult the owners manual for what the performance should be. If it is beyond those numbers then ask CW for guidance.
 

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I did do an accurate test. I set it to the second using the atomic clock 3 weeks ago and it's gained 5 mins like I said. So I take it from the replies that it is running too fast?
If you are sure that the length of the test and amount of error is correct and you are still dissatisfied then consult the owners manual for what the performance should be. If it is beyond those numbers then ask CW for guidance.
 

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If you're wearing a mechanical with the expectation of accuracy, you might need to reconsider your priorities. Personally, anything within 15s/day is within expectations for any of my mechanicals and so they all meet my expectations. :). BTW, it is "gain or lose" not loose. Loose rhymes with moose, lose rhymes with booze. Loose or lose? | OxfordWords blog
 
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