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Discussion Starter #1
I have recently sold a vintage Waltham on Craigslist that I had picked up of the Bay' with a few other vintage watches and today I had contacted the buyer that I was selling another one of my vintage Seiko's and he told me I sold him a fake. Of course the watch had a brand new Hirsch leather band on it that I spent nearly as much as the watch but I find it hard to believe that somebody is faking 60 and 70's Waltham watches when I spent $50 buying it (the only working one in the batch).

I only have a few pictures of it, I never cracked it open, it worked well from the day I purchased it, and it had some wear but was in good shape.

Anything to be told from the pictures?


[/URL]20140601_205915 by Wraith04, on Flickr[/IMG]
 

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Looks fine to me but I would want to see the movement. Did he specify why he believes it is fake?
 

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Looks legit to me. It wasn't made by the Waltham Watch Company of Waltham Illinois, but then, no watches were after the mid 50's. That particular one might not even have been sold by Waltham of Chicago, the "successor" if you will. Still legit for what it is.
 

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and he told me I sold him a fake. [/IMG]
A fake what?
What exactly he is claiming a fake from your pictures?

The movement? We you showed no movement pictures. Dial or case. Look perfect to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
He hasn't replied yet to why he claims that, I am really interested as to who told him this.
 

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Looks fine, especially without seeing the movement. Surely it's just the succession issue that AbslomRob alludes to. I find it hard to believe that anyone would tool up to fake a Waltham as they trade for such relatively modest sums.
 

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The only post-Waltham Waltham worth faking, to my mind, would be the waltham watch that was worn on the moon, and as far as I know, no one is quite sure what model that was anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
He did reply back stating that it is stamped Hong Kong on the inside of the case back, the case is not stainless, there are no matching serial numbers from case to movement, and the W on the face is wrong. Of course the fact he is quoting the serial number issue shows he doesn't know about the later history of Waltham. I sold this for $55 on the new Hirsch I spent $40 on, hell I'm tempted to buy it back.
 

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The buyer is ignorant of the history of post-Waltham Waltham watches. The watch appears to be genuine to me (I haven't seen the movement, but have no reason to think it is not correct for the watch) - you'll find parts outsourced from various countries on these later Waltham jobbies. Serial numbers on cases and movements will NOT match - that's as it should be. The "W" logo is indeed correct for a certain period, of which this watch looks appropriate. I'd say the only issue raised that is possibly valid is the stainless steel case issue. If you advertised it as all stainless and it is actually a plated case with stainless back then it was mis-described.

If that is the case I suggest you refund in full and take the watch back.
 

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Yeah, he's an idiot. The W is what I call the "flying diamond" logo, which I think was used by Textron, who manufacturered Waltham watches under license after 1976.
 

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The problem is that IMHO for this particular model nobody knows for sure how original watch should looks like, and what movements should be inside. They were faking watches in Hong Kong 50+ years ago, and not only rolexes and such. In '50 or '60s there were stores in HK and Macau full of watches of all imaginable brands (I would guess including Waltham), all of them counterfeited.
 

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The problem is that IMHO for this particular model nobody knows for sure how original watch should looks like, and what movements should be inside...
I'd question how much of a problem that would really be given that by the time this watch was made, Waltham were pretty much an entry-level brand, so a genuine Hong Kong assembled Waltham and a fake would likely be made with exactly the same basic Swiss ebauche movement and same locally-made chromed brass case.
 

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Wikipedia reckons it was a Bulova chronograph on the moon as the only other brand (specifications in the link):

Omega Speedmaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, this link also gives Waltham the credit and has some model suggestions:

What watches were worn on or near the moon?

Hartmut Richter
Hi Hartmut, it is incorrect that Dave Scott wore a Waltham, as the actual watch is a Bulova chrono.
In the linked article below is a photo of the watch, taken by Larry McGlynn, who purchased Commander Scott's Bulova stopwatch used to time Apollo 15's burns on their re-entry.

Bulova Chronograph Flown to moon on Apollo 15 ?? | myBulova.com
 

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I'd question how much of a problem that would really be given that by the time this watch was made, Waltham were pretty much an entry-level brand, so a genuine Hong Kong assembled Waltham and a fake would likely be made with exactly the same basic Swiss ebauche movement and same locally-made chromed brass case.
This is very true. By they time this watch was made in the 60s, Waltham had long been just a name and set of trademarks, and even before that had largely blown their reputation for fine watches by cutting corners on quality before the War. Nobody would bother "faking" a Waltham by that time.
 

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Cases made in Hong Kong were not uncommon in the 1970s, when practically all manufacturers struggled to cut costs.

I take it the watch you sold was typical for its age. No fake, anyway. And not in good hands now, if you want my opinion ;-)

Best
Tomcat
 
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