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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I see some folks really appreciate the one-piece, slide-through braided "Perlon" tropical straps with a stainless steel buckle. The standard setter in this type of strap is Eulit of Germany, which I have been using and abusing for decades.

perlons03.jpg

Very, very close behind Eulit is Fluco, also of Germany.

The biggest difficulty these days is finding similar quality product in sizes larger than 20mm.

If all one needs is 18-19-20mm width, both Eulit and Fluco can meet your needs - and there are even US dealers who carry them in stock.

HOWEVER, if one needs 22-24mm or larger, one takes potluck from numerous other "brands" that claim to provide braided Perlon with stainless steel buckles.

Most of my watches require 19 or 20mm straps, but I have a new military that requires a 22mm strap. Since I've used the Eulit straps since I was in Vietnam [mumble] years ago, I hoped to be able to simply order up a 22mm Eulit Perlon, but Eulit (and Fluco) does not make a a Kristall larger than 20mm.

So, hoping for the best I ordered a 22mm "Perlon" strap with "stainless steel buckle from HelloNATOstrap.com.

The strap may or may not be Perlon, but I found that the much cruder buckle was definitely NOT stainless steel when I attempted to smooth and polish the edges of the thin, roughly stamped buckle and quickly penetrated the plating and hit brass. Needless to say I was highly disappointed. :-(

I then ordered Premium 22mm "Perlon" straps with "stainless steel" buckles, made in Europe, from DecoWrist.com in Hong Kong, and also from WatchObsession (Wales).

The first of those to come in was from DecoWrist, and while the buckle appeared to be marginally thicker than the one from HNS, and the finishing of the edges was a bit smoother, the buckles looked eerily similar. I carefully rounded the "lip" of one buckle where it bears on the strap to verify the material, and after small effort ended up again at brass. :-x

Today, the WatchObsession strap came in, the buckle was identical to the DecoWrist, right down to the tool marks. I again lightly smoothed the buckle lip and hit brass. o|

I am very disappointed that three different vendors all claim to have premium straps braided from Perlon yarn, with stainless steel buckles, and all three flat out lied about the material of the buckle (and I now suspect about using Perlon).

If anyone knows of any QUALITY straps and buckles similar in construction and quality to the Eulit Kristal 301 straps Or the Fluco tropic) and buckles I'd really like to know about them. I'm not after cheap, I'd be willing to pay up to $30 each for a quality tropical strap, if only I could find one.

I'll post up pictures of all the buckles, showing the brass under the plating, if I am requested to.

Thanks for reading my rant, and have a good day.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Re: False Advertising From Strap Vendors

EU = Eulit, HNS = HelloNATOstrap, DW = DecoWrist, WO = WatchObsession

buckles03.jpg

plated_brass_buckle800.jpg
(HNS)
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Re: False Advertising From Strap Vendors

If you go looking at the earlier links to the sites selling these straps/buckles, you will also see that the advertising pictures DO NOT match the delivered product for most of 'em.
 

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Re: False Advertising From Strap Vendors

Firstly, it is not our intention / nor do we deliberately falsely advertise any of our products, our descriptions are based on the details provided to us by our Suppliers, but I suppose the buck does stop with us and we are responsible to ensure the accuracy in our descriptions so in this instance we hold our hands up.

What I would ask in this instance is that if a purchaser feels that they have not received what they thought they where buying is that they contact us, don't have a problem with this post, but we do not sit on the forums 24/7 and we can reply to issues far quicker if direct contact has been made, apologises OP, if you have made direct contact, but we have not received anything as yet.

We are currently getting confirmation from our Supplier on all details and will amend our descriptions accordingly once confirmed, we are currently upgrading our buckles, which will include other colour options and if OP contacts us we can get one of the new buckles in the post free of charge as soon as we take delivery, a little while yet, but we will send one out !!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Re: False Advertising From Strap Vendors

Firstly, it is not our intention / nor do we deliberately falsely advertise any of our products, our descriptions are based on the details provided to us by our Suppliers, but I suppose the buck does stop with us and we are responsible to ensure the accuracy in our descriptions so in this instance we hold our hands up.

What I would ask in this instance is that if a purchaser feels that they have not received what they thought they where buying is that they contact us, don't have a problem with this post, but we do not sit on the forums 24/7 and we can reply to issues far quicker if direct contact has been made, apologises OP, if you have made direct contact, but we have not received anything as yet.

We are currently getting confirmation from our Supplier on all details and will amend our descriptions accordingly once confirmed, we are currently upgrading our buckles, which will include other colour options and if OP contacts us we can get one of the new buckles in the post free of charge as soon as we take delivery, a little while yet, but we will send one out !!
I did not expect that you had a bunch of elves on premises, in a back room, turning out buckles for you, but somewhere is a factory selling you plated brass parts and claiming they are the purest of stainless steel. Trusting them, you advertise to your customers based on their assertions. You are the second vendor to tell me this, and the probability that it is the same manufacturer seems rather high after looking at the buckles.

I should apologize for not contacting you directly, first, but my intent with this post was not to get something done for myself (another product, refund, whatever), but to warn customers buying this sort of product that they are not what they seem and not what they are sold as.

My main reason for not contacting you directly is that I really don't expect you to be able to do anything for me, nor should I expect you to: I bought the product, it is an inexpensive product, I will use the product, I'm just disappointed that it is not quite the product I was expecting. (Besides, after three purchases in a row, from three different parts of the world, turned out to have the very same problem, I was, hopefully understandably, angry.)

As to your new color options, since those only affect the surface, just as the plating only affects the surface of the brass, they would still have the same problem should I wish to re-contour the edges to be rid of the obvious tool marks. Besides, I'm still just looking for stainless steel, just as I am in my watches.

So, I apologize for not warning you and letting you get ahead of the problem of mis-labeled product, but as the company responsible for assuring that what you say of your product is true, you should have sacrificed the very first of these in your door to verification. Small price to pay since you likely have no warranty from the manufacturer, and no recourse for a crate of cheap plated brass buckles you bought thinking they were premium stainless steel.

BTW, I'm still looking for a stainless buckle of this general type in 22mm if you know of any... ;-) I'd be happy to buy one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: False Advertising From Strap Vendors

Random buckle thoughts...

The classic Eulit buckle looks like this (if it were 22mm):

eulit_buckle02.jpg

I'd be quite happy to spend $5, even $10 just for a stainless steel buckle, maybe twice as thick as the stamped brass ones being generally sold now.

In my mind, that buckle would look something like this...

22mm_stainless_buckle_dwg01.jpg
 

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Re: False Advertising From Strap Vendors

Firstly, it is not our intention / nor do we deliberately falsely advertise any of our products, our descriptions are based on the details provided to us by our Suppliers, but I suppose the buck does stop with us and we are responsible to ensure the accuracy in our descriptions so in this instance we hold our hands up.

What I would ask in this instance is that if a purchaser feels that they have not received what they thought they where buying is that they contact us, don't have a problem with this post, but we do not sit on the forums 24/7 and we can reply to issues far quicker if direct contact has been made, apologises OP, if you have made direct contact, but we have not received anything as yet.

We are currently getting confirmation from our Supplier on all details and will amend our descriptions accordingly once confirmed, we are currently upgrading our buckles, which will include other colour options and if OP contacts us we can get one of the new buckles in the post free of charge as soon as we take delivery, a little while yet, but we will send one out !!
Looking at economic data with regards to China, I'd pay particular attention to what you are being sent. Things are getting tight over there as their exports are dropping from lower demand. This seems to lead to greater supplier 'shortcuts', 'misunderstandings', and 'mistakes'.

The manufacturing company I work for started to run into way more Chinese QC problems than typical after things tanked worldwide in '09.

My two cents.
 

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Re: False Advertising From Strap Vendors

Tomas472, I have to agree with you 100%. Aside from the buckle characteristics, one of the things that bugs me the most is that 99.9% of strap sellers call braided straps made of regular nylon, Perlon. They seem to think that Perlon refers to a style of strap rather than the fiber, and there are distinct differences in the characteristics of regular nylon versus Perlon. If I want a strap that is softer to the touch, more flexible, but is more stretchable, especially when wet, then I will choose a nylon strap. If I want a strap that's stiffer, has superior resistance to abrasion, holds its shape, and doesn't stretch when wet, I will choose a Perlon strap. To simplify, it's a choice between softer or tougher... whatever your preference, but the two fibers are not the same.

This comparison illustrates the physical differences between the two fibers.

Not only are physical characteristics an issue, but Perlon is a fiber manufactured by Perlon-Monofil GmbH in Germany and is trademarked, and the straps being sold as Perlon by 99% of retailers are made in China of regular nylon, not Perlon (it wouldn't surprise me if they all come from the same supplier), and virtually every seller out there, with only one exception that I'm aware of, is illegally infringing on Perlon-Monofil's trademark. The exception is Crown and Buckle. When Crown and Buckle first introduced their braided straps they called them Perlon, the same as everyone else. I contacted them to see if they were really Perlon, because I wanted Perlon and not nylon, and the owner of the company stated he wasn't certain and would look into it. I assume he clarified it with his supplier because the name of the straps on the C&B website was later changed from Perlon to Braided Nylon (the correct description). Kudos to C&B for doing the right thing and helping to avoid confusion in the marketplace. They will continue to get my business.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: False Advertising From Strap Vendors

Tomas472, I have to agree with you 100%. Aside from the buckle characteristics, one of the things that bugs me the most is that 99.9% of strap sellers call braided straps made of regular nylon, Perlon. They seem to think that Perlon refers to a style of strap rather than the fiber, and there are distinct differences in the characteristics of regular nylon versus Perlon. If I want a strap that is softer to the touch, more flexible, but is more stretchable, especially when wet, then I will choose a nylon strap. If I want a strap that's stiffer, has superior resistance to abrasion, holds its shape, and doesn't stretch when wet, I will choose a Perlon strap. To simplify, it's a choice between softer or tougher... whatever your preference, but the two fibers are not the same.

This comparison illustrates the physical differences between the two fibers.

Not only are physical characteristics an issue, but Perlon is a fiber manufactured by Perlon-Monofil GmbH in Germany and is trademarked, and the straps being sold as Perlon by 99% of retailers are made in China of regular nylon, not Perlon (it wouldn't surprise me if they all come from the same supplier), and virtually every seller out there, with only one exception that I'm aware of, is illegally infringing on Perlon-Monofil's trademark. The exception is Crown and Buckle. When Crown and Buckle first introduced their braided straps they called them Perlon, the same as everyone else. I contacted them to see if they were really Perlon, because I wanted Perlon and not nylon, and the owner of the company stated he wasn't certain and would look into it. I assume he clarified it with his supplier because the name of the straps on the C&B website was later changed from Perlon to Braided Nylon (the correct description). Kudos to C&B for doing the right thing and helping to avoid confusion in the marketplace. They will continue to get my business.

After their spirited defense of being able to call anything "Perlon" because no one owned a trademark on the brand "Perlon" when used in watch straps, Watch Obsession has actually backed off a bit on that and changed their description of their straps being made of braided Perlon to their being made of braided Nylon some time in the past week. I applaud them for that.

http://www.perlon-monofil.com/index.php/fuseaction/download/lrn_file/T201engl.pdf

OLD:

watchobsession_perlon_page.jpg

NEW:

WO_nylon_page.jpg
 

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Re: False Advertising From Strap Vendors

After their spirited defense of being able to call anything "Perlon" because no one owned a trademark on the brand "Perlon" when used in watch straps, Watch Obsession has actually backed off a bit on that and changed their description of their straps being made of braided Perlon to their being made of braided Nylon some time in the past week. I applaud them for that.
But they still refer to them as Perlon straps as though Perlon refers to a style of strap. They should simply be called braided nylon straps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: False Advertising From Strap Vendors

How do straps from watchbandit compare?
I have not ordered from them, but others have, and there is a whole thread here about that...
 

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Re: False Advertising From Strap Vendors

But they still refer to them as Perlon straps as though Perlon refers to a style of strap. They should simply be called braided nylon straps.
BrentYCC, the Perlon Police, welcome back, it seems you had gone AWOL since your last false claim about my Company on a previous post, still waiting for the apology, no rush :) !!!!

Sorry to others to keep going over old ground but here it is again .....


There is no reason not to call the straps we sell as a "Perlon", as you are fully aware, there is NO Trademark on the word "Perlon" in association with a watch strap and you are fully aware of this but kindly refuse to accept this despite being told this numerous amounts of time and being pointed to the site showing this.

I have also pointed out to you, that the "Perlon" naming is very similar as that of the NATO strap but again you refuse to accept this, or make any reference to this but continually drone on and on about the origins on Perlon and how the "modern" Perlon should not be called Perlon.

We will NOT remove the wording Perlon from these straps, reason being, Perlon is commonly being referred to as this style of braided nylon strap, despite the physical make up of the strap, customers see them exactly as that, a Perlon strap, there are very few customers who really care about the "genuine" Perlon against the "modern" Perlon, there is a hard core that have a gripe about it and despite being given extensive reasons / proof etc, still put false claims out on the internet about it, for what reasons, only you guys know !!

Maybe you would like to clarify BrentYCC in what capacity you deem yourself to be the ultimate authority and expert on Perlon straps, would be interesting to know where you are sourcing these false claims and accusations from.
 

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Re: False Advertising From Strap Vendors

Not only are physical characteristics an issue, but Perlon is a fiber manufactured by Perlon-Monofil GmbH in Germany and is trademarked

Correct, but not Trademarked in regards to a watch strap !!!


and the straps being sold as Perlon by 99% of retailers are made in China of regular nylon not Perlon (it wouldn't surprise me if they all come from the same supplier)
As you assume we ( Retailers ) are all buying from the same Supplier, but again, you are wrong, not from China

and virtually every seller out there, with only one exception that I'm aware of, is illegally infringing on Perlon-Monofil's trademark.
Incorrect, as confirmed above, there is no Trademark in association with a watch strap, therefore there is no illegal infringement taking place


BrentYCC, you have been continually corrected on your false claims and accusations against my Company, have yet to apologise for this and correct your statements, this is all getting very tiresome and I really am taking exception to you constantly discrediting my Company, if you persist with this maybe we will consider taking action against you for slander / deformation of character, I am sure there is some legal term this will fall under. I have worked exceptionally hard on my business over the past 7 years, starting from nothing to what it is today, we are not perfect but have come a very long way in a short period of time and I am not going to sit back and watch you continually try and undermine all that hard work, base your posts on FACTS or you will leave us no choice !!!
 

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Re: False Advertising From Strap Vendors

I have not ordered from them, but others have, and there is a whole thread here about that...
Sorry, I had not seen that. I usually don't frequent the straps forum, I came to this thread from your post in the perlon thread in the affordables section.

Edit: having read the other thread now, it seems that it devolved into the same discussion about perlon being the name of the strap or the material. Very little about the actual watchbandit perlon
 

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Re: False Advertising From Strap Vendors

Not only are physical characteristics an issue, but Perlon is a fiber manufactured by Perlon-Monofil GmbH in Germany and is trademarked
In response to the false claim by the Perlon Police, BrentYCC, here is the confirmation that you where informed way back in January of this year about the Trademark position but keep insisting that there is still a Trademark in association with a Watch Strap.....

Screen Shot 2015-09-11 at 13.41.36.jpg

Well lets put this to bed once and for all, prove it, back up your claim / statement with FACT !!!!!
 

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Re: False Advertising From Strap Vendors


Correct, but not Trademarked in regards to a watch strap !!!



As you assume we ( Retailers ) are all buying from the same Supplier, but again, you are wrong, not from China


Incorrect, as confirmed above, there is no Trademark in association with a watch strap, therefore there is no illegal infringement taking place


BrentYCC, you have been continually corrected on your false claims and accusations against my Company, have yet to apologise for this and correct your statements, this is all getting very tiresome and I really am taking exception to you constantly discrediting my Company, if you persist with this maybe we will consider taking action against you for slander / deformation of character, I am sure there is some legal term this will fall under. I have worked exceptionally hard on my business over the past 7 years, starting from nothing to what it is today, we are not perfect but have come a very long way in a short period of time and I am not going to sit back and watch you continually try and undermine all that hard work, base your posts on FACTS or you will leave us no choice !!!
Well, buddy. You just lost my business.

Your logic is as retarded and deceptive as calling brass 'Solid Gold®' because gold isn't trademarked.

Perlon is the trademark of the material. If you are not using it, that is a 100% false claim. I don't know about the UK/EU, but in Canada the Competitions Bureau would be dealing with you in a manner you wouldn't care for.

Makes me wonder how thoroughly you are going to check your fake stainless steel buckles.
 
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