[MeapSecurity]

I'm looking for a budget-minded Flieger. Basically, I have limited the choices to 3 models. The escapement time and san martin are probably the best value fliegers on the market. The laco has the brand heritage of being the original brand to make them but is close to double the price for basically the same specs. Would you value the value of the san martin and escapement time more, or the brand heritage of the laco? Out of the san martin and laco, which one would you take? The san martin has better lume, case dimensions, and a better bracelet, and the escapement time has blued hands and a better movement.

 

[Scaramouche]

Tough choice.
I search ideal flieger for me too some times ago. just wondering, are you watching type A or type B?
If you lokking for type A then you can also look at Tisell.
Of these three, I would probably choose Laco.

 

[MeapSecurity]

Type b. I feel like the dial of type a is too empty and also less legible.

 

[AardnoldArrdvark]

Interesting conundrum!

My (relevent) Watches

I have a Laco Friedrichshafen Erbstück which is a) a lot more expensive than the San Martin or Escapement time watches, b) considerably bigger (45mm) and c) aged (it's a B -Uhr if you're not familiar with the model).

I also have the Escapement Time VH31 Dress watch that is a bit of a forum favourite and quite a number of San Martin watches; but no fliegers.

I bought the Laco because of the heritage aspects and it is a fantastic and well made watch but to be honest it's not an everyday wear sort of watch. Perhaps a smaller and un-aged model may be but I'm not convinced. It's a good, well made and reliable performer (mine has an ETA2824 movement).

My San Martins are all well made - generally I've gone for PT5000 movements when there was a choice but I do have several watches with Seiko movements too. I rate San Martin very highly.

I bought the Escapement Time because I wanted a 'grab and go' dress watch and the VH31 movement is a brilliant concept. Can't fault the build quality of this model either.

Your Choices

No idea which Laco model you're considering but if you value the heritage then Laco is the way to go. That said, the San Martin and Escapement Time models will be more affordable and may be better choices for everyday wear (of course the advantage of the Laco Erstück is that you don't need to worry about adding dents to the case as it has plenty already ).

From a quality point of view I can't fault my San Martins or Escapement Time (although I don't have experience of an Escapement Time with a purely mechanical movement).

The main difference I see between the Escapement Time and the San Martin fliegers (which one are you considering? They have a few models) is that the Escapement Time looks more like a shiny dress watch case with a flieger dial whereas the San Martin models look a bit more 'military'. If I was still wearing suits for work then the Escapement Time might get the nod as it would work well with a suit or jacket and tie but otherwise I'd probably go for the San Martin.

I agree with your comment about the B-Uhr vs the A-Uhr.

A picture, well, why not?

Laco Friedrichshafen Erbstück

I did think of posting pictures of my San Martin and Escapement Time watches but since they are not models you're considering I decided against it!

 

[dirtvictim]

Look for an older Laco with eta movement. Wouldn't settle for anything less than Swiss

 

[LosAngelesTimer]

Is it safe to assume the Escapement Time and San Martin use the Seiko NH35?

While the NH is hardly an exemplar of refinement, it's practically a JLC movement when compared to the rattletrap Miyota 8-series found in lower end Lacos.

 

[NC_Hager626]

I really don't understand what the dilemma is. If you want a Flieger, then choose the Laco Flieger. The other two are not Fliegers at all, but rip-offs from established brands that have a proven history in producing Flieger watches.

 

[TgeekB]

Is it safe to assume the Escapement Time and San Martin use the Seiko NH35?

While the NH is hardly an exemplar of refinement, it's practically a JLC movement when compared to the rattletrap Miyota 8-series found in lower end Lacos.

I believe the Escapement Time has the NH38. Looks pretty nice actually.
A flieger is a flieger is a flieger. I don’t see a big difference between them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[LosAngelesTimer]

I believe the Escapement Time has the NH38. Looks pretty nice actually.
A flieger is a flieger is a flieger. I don’t see a big difference between them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I agree. While I'm no fan of the clone watches pumped out by companies like San Martin, a flieger is a pattern rather than an original design pioneered by a particular manufacturer.

 

[Fatal_emission]

Of the 3 Laco without question. Genuine heritage not a Chinese copy and paste. I won't consider Chinese anyway for "ethical" reasons.

 

[mui.richard]

I'm looking for a budget-minded Flieger. Basically, I have limited the choices to 3 models. The escapement time and san martin are probably the best value fliegers on the market. The laco has the brand heritage of being the original brand to make them but is close to double the price for basically the same specs. Would you value the value of the san martin and escapement time more, or the brand heritage of the laco? Out of the san martin and laco, which one would you take? The san martin has better lume, case dimensions, and a better bracelet, and the escapement time has blued hands and a better movement.

Not exactly a fan of the flieger genre myself. They are supposed to be large 45mm pieces meant to be worn over the jacket sleeve for fighter pilots to quickly tell time elapsed at a glance for navigation. Not exactly an everyday watch in my book.

With that said, I think I agree with @AardnoldArrdvark ...forget the smaller sizes, go with the real thing in 45mm if indeed it's a flieger you want.

Iirc Five manufacturers – four German and one Swiss – supplied the B-Uhren. In Germany, A. Lange & Söhne, Wempe, Lacher & Company/Durowe (Laco), and Walter Storz (Stowa) produced the original flieger watches. Wempe and Stowa used Swiss movements; Wempe settled on the Thommen cal. 31, and Stowa used the Unitas cal. 2812. Lange used its big cal. 48 and then its cal. 48.1, and Laco used its (Durowe) cal. 5 – the only two companies to use in-house German movements.

So if it's heritage you want, go with Stowa or Laco.

However, based on your "budget concern" I'd go with San Martin if I were in your shoes. Decent quality for what you're paying and essentially the same watch, albeit a more "modern" version.

And before anyone get on the high horse claiming they wouldn't buy anything Chinese, many ETA movement parts are made in China these days so unless you go vintage, there's no guarantee that part of the watch is not from China anyway.

 

[AardnoldArrdvark]

Not exactly a fan of the flieger genre myself. They are supposed to be large 45mm pieces meant to be worn over the jacket sleeve for fighter pilots to quickly tell time elapsed at a glance for navigation. Not exactly an everyday watch in my book.

With that said, I think I agree with @AardnoldArrdvark ...forget the smaller sizes, go with the real thing in 45mm if indeed it's a flieger you want.

Iirc Five manufacturers – four German and one Swiss – supplied the B-Uhren. In Germany, A. Lange & Söhne, Wempe, Lacher & Company/Durowe (Laco), and Walter Storz (Stowa) produced the original flieger watches. Wempe and Stowa used Swiss movements; Wempe settled on the Thommen cal. 31, and Stowa used the Unitas cal. 2812. Lange used its big cal. 48 and then its cal. 48.1, and Laco used its (Durowe) cal. 5 – the only two companies to use in-house German movements.

So if it's heritage you want, go with Stowa or Laco.

However, based on your "budget concern" I'd go with San Martin if I were in your shoes. Decent quality for what you're paying and essentially the same watch, albeit a more "modern" version.

And before anyone get on the high horse claiming they wouldn't buy anything Chinese, many ETA movement parts are made in China these days so unless you go vintage, there's no guarantee that part of the watch is not from China anyway.

The Swiss supplier was IWC who also supplied Allied forces with watches.

 

[sticky]

I voted with my wallet and got the Laco.

 

[ckim52]

Of the 3, Laco by a landslide. Another option is a used Tisell pilot.

 

[Revzman123]

I won't consider Chinese anyway for "ethical" reasons.

What device are you posting this from?

 

[Revzman123]

Look into Stowa like has been stated if you are set on the Laco.

San Martin if it has to be a chinese homage, though if what I see on reddit is true, there have been more QC issues as people flock to aliexpress to purchase them.

 

[mui.richard]

I'm looking for a budget-minded Flieger. Basically, I have limited the choices to 3 models. The escapement time and san martin are probably the best value fliegers on the market. The laco has the brand heritage of being the original brand to make them but is close to double the price for basically the same specs. Would you value the value of the san martin and escapement time more, or the brand heritage of the laco? Out of the san martin and laco, which one would you take? The san martin has better lume, case dimensions, and a better bracelet, and the escapement time has blued hands and a better movement.

Btw, perhaps an interesting read into the genre before pulling the trigger?

Crash Course In Flieger (Pilot) And B-Uhren (Navigator) Watches Covering Both Historic And Modern Examples (Pilot’s Watch Photofest!) - Reprise - Quill & Pad

The majority of today's numerous flieger-style watches are inspired by the now-iconic German pilot’s and navigator's watches of World War II, becoming a genre unto themselves. Bhanu Chopra flies high to take a deep dive into the long history of this popular style.

quillandpad.com

 

[tresconik]

What device are you posting this from?

Not that I disagree or agree with the person to whom you respond, but when you have a choice to avoid something, there's no problem if you do.

 

[Guzmannosaurus]

Escapementtime

No complaints from me....

 

[brandon\]

Type b. I feel like the dial of type a is too empty and also less legible.

Interesting. I'd highly recommend getting a couple inexpensive fliegers - both type A and B. I say this because I think you're take is incorrect. Of course, it's subjective, but I find type B dials way less legible than type A dials. Type B dials are busier and less intuitive. With that said, I do prefer the type B because it's unique. I feel like you can basically get the a type A in many other styles of watches like field watches.

I just bought one from AliEx. You can see some pics and what I think about it in the links below. It's probably a little too much for just testing out the style. But there are probably less expensive options out there. But I really don't think you would prefer a type B over a type A if legibility is what you're going for. If you want a unique style, type B all the way.

Best of Ali-Xpress?

Agreed w/the Orient calibers. I've always been surprised by their accuracy as well as their power reserve! They generally far exceed their specs-- that has been my experience but perhaps I should qualify that since my experience has been w/OrientStar's Can attest: just got an Orient Star last...

www.watchuseek.com

Best of Ali-Xpress?

hello, which one is it ? Do you like its look ? Have you got similar ones and how does it compare to them ? I have a similar looking one and does not find it convenient in every day life, maybe because it takes some time to be used to it.

www.watchuseek.com