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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a year old Sinn UX GSG watch and saw an offer for a 2017 Grand Seiko Quartz Diver for a few hundred dollars more. I love the Sinn, but it is a bit heavy and definitely a problem sending it to Germany every 7 years for an expensive battery change. The Seiko requires battery changes every 3 years, though and doesn't have extra hardened steel like the Sinn. Which mechanism would likely hold up longer: a GS 9F or a ETA 955.652? Which company honors its warranties more? Is there any difference in accuracy as actually measured (as opposed to advertized numbers)? I would consider a more modern Citizen Chronomaster or Grand Seiko - but neither make sports watches with significant lume, and that is important. Which is a better watch (leaving out prestige)?
 

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I have a year old Sinn UX GSG watch and saw an offer for a 2017 Grand Seiko Quartz Diver for a few hundred dollars more. I love the Sinn, but it is a bit heavy and definitely a problem sending it to Germany every 7 years for an expensive battery change. The Seiko requires battery changes every 3 years, though and doesn't have extra hardened steel like the Sinn. Which mechanism would likely hold up longer: a GS 9F or a ETA 955.652? Which company honors its warranties more? Is there any difference in accuracy as actually measured (as opposed to advertized numbers)? I would consider a more modern Citizen Chronomaster or Grand Seiko - but neither make sports watches with significant lume, and that is important. Which is a better watch (leaving out prestige)?
Welcome. Have you searched for answers to your questions?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes, I've searched for answers but didn't really get information that I wanted. The two high accuracy quartz mechanisms have about the same accuracy. Both are temperature corrected. The 9F is high torque and a sealed system, so the second hand hits a bit more exactly and it supposedly doesn't need servicing for a longer time (assuming that one can still get batteries for it in 10-20 years), at the expense of short battery life.
How good the companies are at honoring warranty, the hardness of the steel, the ability to service the watch in 20 years, etc. are hard to get from a search, unfortunately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The Sinn UX seems tougher but the GS has a more elegant look. One thing that is a bit concerning about the GS is that, unlike Sinn, the model was out a few years and has since disappeared from production. The Sinn UX models have changed very little since they were first introduced.
 

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You have to send the UX in for battery change due to the oil-filled design. I don't know if Sinn has repair centers qualified to service the UX in other countries but if it is sent back to Frankfurt it will be several hundred dollars and months of waiting.

The 9Fxx series is one of the finest quartz modules around, and definitely the best-finished today. ETA and Citizen cannot touch the 9F when it comes to finishing. The only thing it lacks is a perpetual calendar. They have a 50 year shelf-life though, a spec which no other company has claimed. Quartz modules are not designed to be serviceable.

I'd go GS for wearability. But buy the watch you love, after you've convinced yourself you can live with the practicalities.
 

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Without pictures my googling may not be what you’re looking at. But to me they’re different animals, I wear my UX to the batting cage, yard work, etc. I wear it on leather, nato, rubber, as well as the bracelet. I don’t have any GS, but I’d probably leave it off for that.
As for warranty, the UX is two years, after that service is service. As another said, a few months and a few hundred every 7 years. Don’t know about the GS.

Honestly, if the UX is not “cool” anymore or filling a need in your lineup, give the GS a try. UX’s, and U1’s for that matter, are easily seen in the sales corner if you regret.

Good luck, and pictures, we need pictures :)

Mine



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you everyone for the advice. The UX is totally cool, but it is heavy and the cost and time to send it back for a battery change is annoying. The shipping alone for them to return the watch is around $150, I believe, and the time for battery change is around four months. My Sinn is very accurate, and I am happy with that.

What potentially appeals to me about the Grand Seiko is that I can take it to any local watch shop to get a battery change for next to nothing and it will take minutes. It is a watch one could dress up or down. The 50 year interval for servicing of the quartz mechanism sounds good, but battery types change, and I am not so sure that the battery will continue to be replaceable or that other parts of the watch won't be worn out by then. The picture on Ebay of a two year old GS showed a lot more wear on the Seiko bracelet clasp than would be typical with a Sinn tegmented buckle. I can't see specs on the steel of the GS to know if it is hardened or antimagnetic. All the current Grand Seikos look like dress watches with great finishing, but there is not a sport or casual watch in current production. I'm old enough to understand that nothing lasts forever, and there will be some watch accurate to 1 second per year that has independent hour hands, a perfect date adjustment, and probably a bunch of other features that I haven't even thought of - available within 5-10 years, and all quartz watches will be obsolete. Buying mechanical just means worse accuracy and the cost of servicing is about the same as buying a new watch every 10-20 years. For real tool watches, in the US military, almost everyone just buys a cheap Casio these days.
 

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Another appealing thing about the Grand Seiko 9F movement is that there are generally rave reviews about the ability for the user to regulate the movement themselves. I like Citizen Chronomasters a lot but I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on one as I've heard the service can be rather gruff and less than what would be expected.
 

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I would never use a > 1k$ watch for hard use - Casio G-Shock are the best for tough use since they are specifically engineered for that purpose. Of course you may or may not like their style, look and specifications but when we talk about "toughness" it can be hardly beaten.

This point made, as pointed out by many the "serviceability" of the Seiko GS is better than the UX. You have no issue changing the battery (even by yourself if you have the right tools) and you have no issues about the rate trimming.

The Citizen Chronomaster has no diver in its lineup. It has great specifications including independent hour hand adjustability, perpetual calendar and solar charge. The accuracy is similar (5 spy CLAIMED vs 10 spy) but it is not user adjustable which is a pity.

As for the finish, there is not a great difference between Seiko and Citizen and anyway it depends on the models. As for the seconds hands alignment, both have some issue, even if not so big.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
At first glance, it would seem to be a downside to quartz movements that they are not serviceable; but even with mechanical watches, one replaces rather than repairs hairsprings, mainsprings, gears, etc. The most expensive ETA quartz movements top out at a little over $100, so it would not make a lot of sense to repair them. The bigger issue is whether they become impossible to purchase at a later date. The quartz movement in the Sinn UX doesn't appear to be currently made by ETA. I don't know about the 9F movements, as it doesn't look like one can purchase them. Is ETA and the Japanese quartz industries like the bicycle industries, where there is forced obsolescence? Do the dimensions change enough so that future movements are enough incompatible with current cases that watches could not be "upgraded"? I know these may be dumb questions, but part availability is a real issue in other products.
 

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At first glance, it would seem to be a downside to quartz movements that they are not serviceable; but even with mechanical watches, one replaces rather than repairs hairsprings, mainsprings, gears, etc. The most expensive ETA quartz movements top out at a little over $100, so it would not make a lot of sense to repair them. The bigger issue is whether they become impossible to purchase at a later date. The quartz movement in the Sinn UX doesn't appear to be currently made by ETA. I don't know about the 9F movements, as it doesn't look like one can purchase them. Is ETA and the Japanese quartz industries like the bicycle industries, where there is forced obsolescence? Do the dimensions change enough so that future movements are enough incompatible with current cases that watches could not be "upgraded"? I know these may be dumb questions, but part availability is a real issue in other products.
Don't overthink this. If something breaks, send it back to the brand. Many vintage watches older than 20-30 years suffer from a lack of parts, even from the manufacturer. Most cannot be repaired unless parts are cannibalized from another watch. People talk about the ETA 28xx being reparable, but seriously, how many actually spend the $ to do so unless its their only watch? Most also fall out of fashion after some years. You barely see PAMs around today, don't you? They were everywhere just 15 or so years ago.

Very few quartz movements are swapped, much less repaired. Even if you find the same movement off-the-shelf (which you can't do for thermocompensated movements) from a watchmaker or parts supplier, it may not be a direct swap because there may be variations in the stem, date wheel, etc. The devil is in the details, so leave it to a watchmaker, but they are not inclined to work on quartz, except to change batteries.

If the movement breaks, would you be willing to spend a substantial sum repairing the watch? It can be half the price of purchase or even steeper. You can revive almost any watch provided you're willing to spend time and money on the project.
 

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You might consider the Seiko Prospex divers. These are Seiko's serious diving watches. The MM1000, MM600 and MM300 are all fantastic.
I don't want to sound offensive but we are in the quartz forum so you shouldn't suggest mechanical watches here ^_^

I like all the Seiko Prospex but I don't remember any of them to be quartz and for sure no one high accuracy... :p
 

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I have a year old Sinn UX GSG watch and saw an offer for a 2017 Grand Seiko Quartz Diver for a few hundred dollars more. I love the Sinn, but it is a bit heavy and definitely a problem sending it to Germany every 7 years for an expensive battery change. The Seiko requires battery changes every 3 years, though and doesn't have extra hardened steel like the Sinn. Which mechanism would likely hold up longer: a GS 9F or a ETA 955.652? Which company honors its warranties more? Is there any difference in accuracy as actually measured (as opposed to advertized numbers)? I would consider a more modern Citizen Chronomaster or Grand Seiko - but neither make sports watches with significant lume, and that is important. Which is a better watch (leaving out prestige)?
As far as accuracy, not a lot of data on the Sinn here. But, that movement is modified into the B74 used in the Breitlings and they perform well here. Is the Sinn as good don't know, but the Breitling and the GS both perform well here.

Since the warranty for the GS is 3 years? and the Sinn is 2 years, odds of either one being all that useful and easy to get an issue resolved quickly, since you are probably going to be shipping them to Japan and Germany respectively, is about a push. No doubt it will cost more to maintain a Sinn because of the battery change costs compared to the GS.

Lume may be a little better with the GS, it uses a slightly modified super luminova, the second hand on the GS is definately easier to see because of the shape, not the lume.

Personally I wouldn't be interested in either one. If I was looking at the Sinn, I would buy a Breitling Colt, granted 500m WR is less, and you don't get submarine grade case, but you get a watch that can be serviced at most AD's, lume, accuracy, dial, bracelet or strap are equal or better to the Sinn and the prices are similar.

If I really needed night time legibilty I would look at the Breitling Evo aerospace. Hard to beat a backlit ani/digital for this job.

Now of course I don't know if you do deep dives, and you like the Sinn for that application. When I dive on vacation, I don't go that deep, my rental dive computer (which is quartz and not liquid filled or submarine grade steel like that Sinn) is more than adequate, as my primary tool. My backup dive watch, that's usually a cheap Seiko, Invicta, Certina, or Bulova. If I loose it or break it on a dive I'm not out a lot of coin.

Good luck with whatever you choose.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Thank you for al the suggestions. The 5000 meter water depth rating doesn't mean much, as 50 feet would probably work fine. The only advantage of the Sinn in real water use is that one doesn't have to check the seals yearly to make sure they are intact, and one doesn't have to rush to rinse it off after it gets exposed to sea water. It is also easier to see at an angle underwater, but no substitute for a dive computer. I like the tegmented steel of the UX, as I seem to be able to scratch up regular watch steel even doing desk work. I agree with the opinions of others that for climbing, class 4 kayaking, caving, and other hard use - it is nice to have a semi disposable watch, and that for me means a G-Shock. The GS looks nicer than the UX and its lume is good for an hour or two, but not more at night. The biggest issue is weight. The UX without strap or bracelet weighs 105 grams (compared with 60 grams for the Breitling colt). I don't know the weight of the GS (couldn't find it online), but I doubt it would be as heavy as the Sinn. Accuracy is phenomenal with the UX, so the ability to self tune is not an issue. The best lume I had in any watch was a Marathon TSAR with tritium tubes. It was good until various parts (tubes, bezel lumes, etc) started falling off in a few years.
 

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The only advantage of the Sinn in real water use is that one doesn't have to check the seals yearly to make sure they are intact, and one doesn't have to rush to rinse it off after it gets exposed to sea water.
That's not true, for any watch, period.

The number one reason why watches are lost to the sea is spring bar failure. That's one reason why people wear sports watches on Nato straps--one failure doesn't make you lose the watch.

The number one reason why spring bars fail is corrosion. Most people take care of the watch and bracelet, but neglect the spring bars. There are actually 4 of them if you wear a bracelet or strap on a deployant. Make sure you rinse out the watch each time you go into the sea, and change the spring bars every year if you do sea sports regularly.
 

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As far as accuracy, not a lot of data on the Sinn here. But, that movement is modified into the B74 used in the Breitlings and they perform well here...
Both Sinn and Breitling use the ETA Thermoline movement (ETA 955.652) without modification. The fact that Breitling call it B74 and mark it like that is not considered to be modification regardless the marketing claim...
 
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