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but how does the ordinary guy assess all those five criteria? It all would boil down to MSRP. :)

Most watches that would score high on all those five elements would have an MSRP of at least USD20K. If there are any watches below, they would be few and far between.
JLC, in my opinion, is high horology. And relatively accessible.
 

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I agree. their QPs are in the USD20K range. And they did launch the quad-something posted above.
And their ultra thins are like under 4mm and attainable under 10K. amazing what that brand is capable of.

What does QPs mean?
 

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And their ultra thins are like under 4mm and attainable under 10K. amazing what that brand is capable of.

What does QPs mean?
Quantieme Perpetuel (Perpetual Calendar)

in another thread, i posited the threshold at USD10K. But some say that would make many of the SS sports models high horology when they clearly are not. So i doubled it to be sure. If USD20K would become the acceptable standard, then finding a JLC piece with all of Bearded’s criteria at below USD10K would be the embodiment of affordable high horology. :)
 

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I repeat my opinion in a similar thread. If affordables are pegged at EUR/USD/GBP/CHF1,000 or less, i think high horology is best objectively set similarly. By price.

Otherwise, it’s like beauty, art or p0rn. I cant clearly define it for you but i know it when i see it. Too subjective.
 

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but how does the ordinary guy assess all those five criteria? It all would boil down to MSRP. :)

Most watches that would score high on all those five elements would have an MSRP of at least USD20K. If there are any watches below, they would be few and far between.
But does the ordinary guy buy HH without any education for the outlay? If they do, then does HH have any significance over the visual/material aspects that drive their decision? Is HH a set of aspects that are good for discussion but may not drive most purchases?
I do not have answers on what it is but I think many consumers know it when they see it


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“what’s life without whimsy”
 

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If we refer to ordinary guy as one with financial means but just doesnt have the knowledge about watches that a watch enthusiast like us do, then i know of several ordinary guys buying HH pieces without deeply knowing what makes the watch HH to begin with. I would assume they like it and they think it’s classy and it’s reflected in the (high) price.

in fashion, there are haute couture brands. So anything from that brand is haute couture. I actually dont understand why in watches it is not so clear. Some would say it’s not the brand that makes it HH but each particular watch must be judged on its own. as judging would necessarily be subjective, i thus propose an objective way of defining HH. As more often than not, all those things that we believe are qualities to be found in a HH watch would be found in watches above that price threshold.

actually, for the individual consumer and in real
life, it doesn’t matter. It’s still a watch whether properly classified as HH or not. The only practical significance i see is the determination of whether a watch belongs to the High End sub-forum or not.
 

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The problem I see with price as the standard is that if we say anything over $20K is haute horology, that would mean that the Rolex Yellow Gold Submariner Date (ref. 126618LN) at $36,950 is haute horology, and I really don't think it should be considered as such.
 

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The problem I see with price as the standard is that if we say anything over $20K is haute horology, that would mean that the Rolex Yellow Gold Submariner Date (ref. 126618LN) at $36,950 is haute horology, and I really don't think it should be considered as such.
Is that the MSRP? If so, i have no problems with it being considered HH. I would suppose the use of PM for the case and bracelet supports the HH advocacy for this piece.
 

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This may have already been said, but here's my opinion. Haute Horology starts where horology becomes art. I don't think it's be possible to have mass produced haute horology. Can you have a mass produced watch that captures what the designer was looking to express? Absolutely. However, its mass produced nature removes it from the realm of haute horology. Having framed Picasso prints on my wall does not make me an art collector.
I think haute horology pieces are manifestations of their designer. I believe the watch's designer must either hand make, or oversee the hand making of each piece.
I do not think price is a qualifier for being haute horology. However, by their nature, unique pieces of art are expensive.
 

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Is that the MSRP? If so, i have no problems with it being considered HH. I would suppose the use of PM for the case and bracelet supports the HH advocacy for this piece.
Yes, that's the MSRP. But, I don't think just sticking a movement into a precious metal case qualifies as haute horology. I also don't think using a non precious metal (e.g., stainless steel) disqualifies it, but I don't think the stainless steel submariners are haute horology, and just upgrading the case doesn't turn it into haute horology. Haute horology can't just be a synonym for "expensive watch" or it loses too much of what it currently connotes. I think it's better to accept that it will always be a somewhat subjective judgment, otherwise there will always be instances where the designation simply seems inappropriate, at least to me.
 

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I think haute horology pieces are manifestations of their designer. I believe the watch's designer must either hand make, or oversee the hand making of each piece.
I think this is probably a bit too restrictive. It would, for example, disqualify many (most?) of A. Lange & Söhne's watches as I don't think the designers (plural) actually oversee the making of individual watches in most instances. I think most people would disagree with that.

I think the "correct" answer has to lie somewhere between trivializing the concept (HH=$$$$) and making it so rarified that almost nothing qualifies. I think haute horology lies somewhere between simply a gold watch and a piece of art, the latter of which deserves its own category within haute horology.
 

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Yes, that's the MSRP. But, I don't think just sticking a movement into a precious metal case qualifies as haute horology. I also don't think using a non precious metal (e.g., stainless steel) disqualifies it, but I don't think the stainless steel submariners are haute horology, and just upgrading the case doesn't turn it into haute horology. Haute horology can't just be a synonym for "expensive watch" or it loses too much of what it currently connotes. I think it's better to accept that it will always be a somewhat subjective judgment, otherwise there will always be instances where the designation simply seems inappropriate, at least to me.
it would always be subjective it seems. The MSRP just seems to be the closest to objectivity that we could get.

the use of PM for HH may have some historical basis. Normally, a watchmaker will not put a so-so watch into an expensive PM case. Usually, only HH watches are cased in PM.
 

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it would always be subjective it seems. The MSRP just seems to be the closest to objectivity that we could get.

the use of PM for HH may have some historical basis. Normally, a watchmaker will not put a so-so watch into an expensive PM case. Usually, only HH watches are cased in PM.
Historically, that may have been the case, but Rolex and Omega have lots of precious metal watches that I wouldn't call haute horology pieces. And there are plenty of other watchmakers who have gotten in the habit of sticking non haute horology movements into precious metal cases just so they can sell it at a higher margin. (The actual costs of the various metals are certainly not as different as the prices for them.) On the other side, F. P. Journe uses stainless steel cases for his Sonneries, which are absolutely haute horology, because it has a better tone than precious metals; the movements of course are gold.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing for there to be certain intangibles in the "definition" as it leaves it open what a watchmaker could do in the realm of haute horology, while also keeping "cheats" out of the category.
 
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