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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Not my thing I posted in high end because it a Patek but it could be vintage so I'll ask u guys for the same help.
My dad sends me a text asking if this is a expensive watch and he thinks it's old.

It's not for sale. But I would like to know the model or the era if production if at all possible.
Thanks.



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Discussion Starter · #2 ·

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Nothing, or almost nothing, about that watch is Patek.

Interestingly, however, the dial might be. It sure looks like the dial from ref 1536, or a pretty good fake of one. If the dial is real nothing else is: hands, case, etc. are all wrong, and you can be pretty sure there's no Patek movement inside.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Right, sad.
Its possible that he may have purchased it from a dealer that just put together a vintage looking Frankenwatch.
What would be the correct movement for that dial, and is that not the correct case?
Would be worth a shot to have them take it to watchmaker and open the back to see what's inside snap a few pics.




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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quick google shows just how far off the case is.
Thanks much for the info.


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Right, sad.
Its possible that he may have purchased it from a dealer that just put together a vintage looking Frankenwatch.
What would be the correct movement for that dial, and is that not the correct case?
Would be worth a shot to have them take it to watchmaker and open the back to see what's inside snap a few pics.
The case is not even close, trust me, even if the dial is real nothing else is. You may as well open the case and look inside, the watch is worth about as much as whatever movement is inside, but don't get your hopes up about finding a Patek movement inside. The movement in a real version of this watch would be a 20J work of art, but no way did anyone put a movement like that inside a case like this.

Here's what the real deal looks like: Bonhams : Patek Philippe. A fine and rare 18k rose gold wristwatch with heavy conical shoulders Ref.1536, Case no.632489, Movement No.864393, made in 1943, sold on May 30, 1944
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the quick help. This is why I kinda stay away from vintage it scares the heck out of me. I have no doubt the the original buyer was led to think it was a real vintage watch. But not being a WIS never knew any better.
At least I know I can pop over and ask u guys when I need help.
Thank you very much.


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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for all the help, I passed the info on to my family member. That it's not correct and could be a frakenwatch.

She sent me a pic of the appraisal done in 1997.
It says dial case and movement are signed.
Any further info??? She has been paying for insurance on it. If it's not right I want to be able to pass that info on. Thanks.




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The appraisal says the case is signed, but that does not look like the right case and I see no markings at all.

Is it possible that the watch was original at the time of appraisal, and later switched or frankened to steal parts?

I would take it to a watchmaker and have them see what movement is inside.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Nope appraisal is correct, it's manny pages long and has all of there jewelry listed on the insurance policy. Done by insurance co.
Google of stainless Steel Calatrava shows vintage in same case.
And it has been in home with no other issues since.

I'll have her take it to watchmaker to service and re-eval. But it just sits in a drawer so function is not a issue to her.






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I think it is harder to tell if these older Pateks are real, not like the more recent cheap fakes. I would get it checked out, there is definitely a chance its legit.
 

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Sorry you're right, the one I linked was the only match I found for that dial in my vintage guide but it's not complete. It looks like it may not be vintage at all, actually.
 

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Stepping in at this somewhat late stage, I would also advise you to be a little careful in your judgement. My first thought when looking at the pictures was that it isn't an obvious fake. Which does not mean to say that it's real, just that things are not clear at this stage. My second thought was that it is most likely a Calatrava (round watch, three hands, non complication watch). My third thought was that the pictures are a little too bad to tell for sure. And my fourth and final thought was that only a picture of the movement will tell us for sure in this particular case.

Remember that the Calatrava model has been around for decades and has gone through a few case changes since its introduction. I can see no obvious sign that the case on that one violates all the possible styles for that watch. Still, as said, better pictures would help.....

Hartmut Richter
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks guys I want to add how helpful you have been and I don't have any info about vintage or Patek and through u I have been texting back to my dad.


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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Now he was able to open the back.
Markings on inside of case.



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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
And now the movement.



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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ok so what am I looking at?? All marked and seems to be as description in apriasial. But is it correct case movement I know it's redial.




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I am amazed that EVERYONE wrote this watch off withOUT asking or seeing a movement shot.

Well I would BET case IS 100% Patek Philippe as is movement.
The case is a Francois Borgel case that we know Patek used.
(crown looks replacement)
That aside this watch is a Patek Philippe with a rare Boirgel case and a FANTASTIC sweep second (indirect) movement.
FANTASTIC wish it was mine

Adam
 
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