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CMW & Sales Moderator
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Discussion Starter #1

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Mod. Russian, China Mech.
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Hello everyone, Does this movement look familiar? It is used in Fake Seiko divers.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/78440/message/1197256866/

(I would just post the pics but sometimes the insert links/pictures buttons do not work!?!? Maybe it's Firefox!!)

Cheers,
gigfy
The designation CHI-7S26 refered to in that thread is obviously not an authentic factory code.

The most obvious candidate is the Hangzhou Watch Factory, whose main base calibre appears to have been reverse-engineered from the old Seiko 7009 (the design which is the ancestor of the 7S26 and also of the current Orient calibres). Not being a Seiko expert, I can't distinguish between a 7009 and 7S26.

Some of these Hangzhou calibres are also used by PTS Resources (see the recent thread about that), including some designs exclusive to PTS.

The RAIXE Ronghua Technological Factory of Clocks and Watches in Jieyang, Guangdong (formerly the Jieyang Watch Parts Factory) apparently manufacture components for Seiko-type movements.

It is important to remember that 'Feikos' are not produced in sufficient numbers to form the basis of a factory's output. The reason for Hangzhou copying the design would be in order to have a reputable design for use in legitimately-branded watches. However, any backyard operation can order a few hundred movements and engrave 'Seiko' on them for the counterfeit market.

These Seiko-like calibres raise some questions of intellectual property. As far as I can tell, these calibres weren't introduced on the basis of purchased redundant tooling from Seiko. A local Seiko specialist recently expressed his disappointment to me that in his experience these 'Chinese Seiko' movements had no compatible parts with true Seikos i.e. the design was adapted to suit the tolerances of existing machine tools in whatever factory they were made.

My experience, shared by others, is that the Hangzhou movement is capable of very high accuracy, although the movement is somewhat more fragile than others (e.g. Sea-Gull). I've seen one example in which the rotor weight became detatched due to poor spot-welding. The Hangzhou movements branded 'Lexus' and used by Stuhrling watches suffered reliability problems. Just inquire over on the Affordables forum and you'll see what I mean. I suspect that those built for PTS undergo some fairly rigorous testing though.

:oops: This was intended to be a brief answer :-x
 

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CMW & Sales Moderator
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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Chascomm. Amazing! Very informative. Is this stuff your regular vocation or do you have a day job?

Cheers,
gigfy
 

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Mod. Russian, China Mech.
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Thanks Chascomm. Amazing! Very informative. Is this stuff your regular vocation or do you have a day job?

Cheers,
gigfy
The day job can be kind of quiet at times. ;-)

I like to be able to determine what is inside a Chinese watch. Since the start of the 'mechanical watch rennaissance', the Swissophiles have been far too dominant. They'll debate endlessly about the relative merits of Sellita vs ETA, and 'is Omega really a manufacture?', but if it's Chinese inside, all they can say is 'it's Chinese'. Seems a bit unfair to me. There's been too many broad assumptions and not enough facts. It was the same story with Russian watches a few years ago, and Japanese watches before that.
 

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The day job can be kind of quiet at times. ;-)

I like to be able to determine what is inside a Chinese watch. Since the start of the 'mechanical watch rennaissance', the Swissophiles have been far too dominant. They'll debate endlessly about the relative merits of Sellita vs ETA, and 'is Omega really a manufacture?', but if it's Chinese inside, all they can say is 'it's Chinese'. Seems a bit unfair to me. There's been too many broad assumptions and not enough facts. It was the same story with Russian watches a few years ago, and Japanese watches before that.
You did not answer his question yet!!
Kidding, but i am not sure even seagull, how would they prove their reliability when they release a new product in very short time...
:-s
 
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