I'm chiming in here as I just purchased a UG without date. Roland thank you for your considerable input on the 1107-x movement discussion. I have a question. Above you say the non-date version of the 1107-1 is a 345. Looking at the pictures on bidfun of 345, the regulator and support seems to be different, from mine, at least in appearance. I am still very much in learning mode. Is this a material difference? Mine seems more like a U56/M347. An image of mine, the 345, and 347 respectively are below.
I was looking at other watches for sale and found this no date complication UG which is stamped 56 on the movement. There is no 1107 reference. Visually it is virtually identical to the one in mine (1107).
I'm chiming in here as I just purchased a UG without date. Roland thank you for your considerable input on the 1107-x movement discussion. I have a question. Above you say the non-date version of the 1107-1 is a 345. Looking at the pictures on bidfun of 345, the regulator and support seems to be different, from mine, at least in appearance. I am still very much in learning mode. Is this a material difference? Mine seems more like a U56/M347. An image of mine, the 345, and 347 respectively are below.
It looks like you may be referring to a fixed vs mobile stud carrier, which is a relatively common variation/upgrade. It's still substantially the same movement. Do you have some specific question, or are you just trying to identify the movement out of curiosity?
Thanks Dan S. I think I do. I am very,very, much still in learning mode. As a novice I look for visual differences which in some cases are material. The pictures of my movement and the U56 on bidfun as well as the one I saw for sale (stamped 56) are virtually identical. Per RR's post I would expect all including the 345 to be similar since all of these were variations on the same movement, however, wouldn't you go with the most similar (visually) versions? Or are there subtle internal differences I cannot discern? Thank you for your patience with my naive questions.
Thanks Dan S. I think I do. I am very,very, much still in learning mode. As a novice I look for visual differences which in some cases are material. The pictures of my movement and the U56 on bidfun as well as the one I saw for sale (stamped 56) are virtually identical. Per RR's post I would expect all including the 345 to be similar since all of these were variations on the same movement, however, wouldn't you go with the most similar (visually) versions? Or are there subtle internal differences I cannot discern? Thank you for your patience with my naive questions.
I'm not sure I understand your question, but you may be over-thinking it. My reading of the thread is that the Movado/Universal calibers are basically identical, but it is not known which company actually made them. It's possible that the difference between the 345 and 347 is the mobile stud carrier, although Roland doesn't indicate that to be the case in his archive. If you found photos of 50 movements, perhaps the mobile and fixed stud carriers would be evenly divided in both 345 and 347 movements. You really can't draw too firm a conclusion from two images.
That's the information I needed. I probably was over thinking it. The watch world seems very rule bound, disciplined, and structured. As I learn, I want to understand the watch world from that perspective so as I ask experts such as yourself I have some confidence I've done my homework.
In the early days of watchmaking there was often a blending of talent, ideas and engineering between watchmakers similar to the nascent days of personal computing. Unfortunately, as with any industry with a long history, business relationships and economic fortunes change. Founders die or move on. At the time, I'm sure the reasoning for the many movement variations was self evident but records were lost so the history is incomplete. Thanks again for your patience.
I don't know how well you understand the basic parts and operation principles of these movements, but the better you understand them, the easier it will be to distinguish between things that are minor upgrades (or features) vs. changes that indicate different movements. The mobile stud carrier is a common upgrade that allows easier adjustment of beat error. Similarly, you may also find small variations in the regulator design. You will find variations like these over time, or even in movements made at the same time but meant to be used in more vs. less-expensive watches.
What can be trickier is to identify variations of the same movement that have different bridge shapes, or even has one bridge/plate broken up into multiple smaller pieces. It's the same movement, but could look very different to someone who is just looking at it in a naive way.
Dan S Admittedly my movement knowledge today is rudimentary at best. Though I have a long way to go I've mostly concentrated on niche brands and their lineage. My movement knowledge has been primarily visual comparisons of the whole unit (bidfun) without knowledge of subtle internal differences that are important. My introduction to incabloc is a case in point. Fortunately there were some very kind and patient members that stuck with me until I understood what it was and where to look for it.
Can you or others recommend any books or sites as primers? Also, I've found a web site that has a very basic course to get me started (TimeZone Watch School Home). If you or others can share any experience with this course or alternatives would be appreciated. I don't see myself ever being a watchmaker but having some basic skills will give me a greater appreciation for these incredible devices.
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