[2guilty]

Hello everyone

I am working with a engineer on making cad drawings to submit to a factory to get a watch manufactured,

I have a design in mind , now the one thing i am sure of is the case will be 44 mm case, i want to have an automatic skeleton watch with no subdials or date function,

now the hard part is choosing the movement, I would ideally prefer swiss movement but would also like to see what my options are if I go with a japanese automatic movement

the factory i am talking to recommended selecting a movement from the Miyota catalog,

well the problem is the only automatic skeleton model they carry (Model 8N24) has an overall diameter of only 26mm, that is way too small for a 44 mm case

Can anyone here point me in the right direction?

I would love to hear from you

 

[Tanguero]

When designing a watch, you start with the movement...
(or design a movement ring)

 

[2guilty]

Yes thank you i already know that part

We are ready sketched out drawings for the band, link, lugs Crown, Case Pins, Buckle, Bezel Dial Ring and god knows what else I haven't mentioned here

I was going to go with Miyota 6S series miovement which is suitable for my case but i scrapped everything and I want to go with a skeleton automatic instead

 

[pithy]

Since you are obviously concerned about quality, you should consider an ETA. And the only auto calibre available that is sized appropriately for your project - irrespective of manufacturer - is the Valgranes series produced by them. The date function can be removed and the main plate and bridges can be customized to your specification.

How many do you anticipate for your initial order?

 

[2guilty]

hello

thank you so much for replying, i was just looking at this one ...

so basically this movement here can me modified to look like a skeleton design?

the initial order is going to be at least 100 of them

the problem is who would modify it? Would I have to make a request with ETA? or the manufacturer who is going to cast the mold and put everything together ? or the engineer I am working with who is going to help me submit the cad drawings for everything that will be built around this movement,

 

[pithy]

hello thank you so much for replying, i was just looking at this one ... so basically this movement here can me modified to look like a skeleton design? the initial order is going to be at least 100 of them the problem is who would modify it? Would I have to make a request with ETA? or the manufacturer who is going to cast the mold and put everything together ? or the engineer I am working with who is going to help me submit the cad drawings for everything that will be built around this movement,

Skeletonizing would be provided by a third party vendor. There are numerous firms that would be interested in your order.

 

[2guilty]

can you help point me in the right direction?

Also does japan have anything to offer , i have to compare costs, do you happen to have an idea of what ill be looking at in terms of movement cost if i go with eta? any information would really help me a lot

 

[pithy]

. . . . . Also does japan have anything to offer . . . . .

. . . . . And the only auto calibre available that is sized appropriately for your project - irrespective of manufacturer - is the Valgranges series produced by them. . . . . .

Once your bonafides are established, introductions can be made on your behalf.

The ETA movements will cost a few hundred dollars (U.S.) each. Dependent upon the level of finish and any chronometer type accuracy modifications you wish made, skeletonizing and related services will be at least a couple of times what the unit purchase price was, so probably more than $1,000 but almost certainly less than $2,000 U.S..

 

[2guilty]

see what i dont get is you have invicta for example who buy the movements for a lot of there watches from sellita in switzerland, a lot of there watches are priced on amazon for less than 70 dollars , automatic watches i may add,

thats the movement , case packaging and markup so how is that even possible?

Stuhrling is another example so is swiss legend, they use swiss movements and most likely assemble everything in hong kong or china, all of these in most cases use swiss movements and have watches priced retail at below a 100 dollars

 

[M.Stanton]

All of the mechanical aspects/manufactuing when it comes to Stuhrling Original (and most likely Invicta, also...I haven't bothered to look into their practices) is done in China. They may use a Swiss design, but they do not use Swiss parts.

Asking for a Swiss movement automatically brings your project into the price range of any other modern Swiss watch, and customizing the movement requires the disassembly, cutting/customization, and reassembly of the movement. This creates roughly 2.5x~3x extra labor of the original assembly of the movements by ETA, and the price jump reflects that.

You can have a "high quality" Chinese movement made and customized, and the Chinese will raise the price accordingly to meet your demands. They will still cost far less than a high quality Swiss movement (more than likely less than $100 each, depending on the Chinese factory's quantity requirements). What you get in quality difference between a Swiss movement and a high quality Chinese movement is over 100 years worth of Swiss horological pride in being the best. The Chinese movements are probably "pretty close" to the equivalent Swiss movements, but lack that extra bit of polish that the Swiss are known for. Unfortunately, in order to get that best of the best quality, you have to make a rather large jump in cost, given the Swiss quality of life standards in comparison to the Chinese.

 

[LCheapo]

Regarding those '100 years of pride': a mere 50 years ago the Swiss were playing the Chinese role, undercutting the US watch production with cheaper wares.

 

[2guilty]

All of the mechanical aspects/manufactuing when it comes to Stuhrling Original (and most likely Invicta, also...I haven't bothered to look into their practices) is done in China. They may use a Swiss design, but they do not use Swiss parts.

Asking for a Swiss movement automatically brings your project into the price range of any other modern Swiss watch, and customizing the movement requires the disassembly, cutting/customization, and reassembly of the movement. This creates roughly 2.5x~3x extra labor of the original assembly of the movements by ETA, and the price jump reflects that.

You can have a "high quality" Chinese movement made and customized, and the Chinese will raise the price accordingly to meet your demands. They will still cost far less than a high quality Swiss movement (more than likely less than $100 each, depending on the Chinese factory's quantity requirements). What you get in quality difference between a Swiss movement and a high quality Chinese movement is over 100 years worth of Swiss horological pride in being the best. The Chinese movements are probably "pretty close" to the equivalent Swiss movements, but lack that extra bit of polish that the Swiss are known for. Unfortunately, in order to get that best of the best quality, you have to make a rather large jump in cost, given the Swiss quality of life standards in comparison to the Chinese.

yes this is exactly what i learned the hard way, i had to check every option and avenue to see what i'll finally go with,

i still haven't selected a movement yet, but right now i've been closely looking at Sea-Gull

two movements peeked my interest one is Seagull TY800, the same one Invicta used in a Tourbillon watch they released a while back

and Seagull's ST8002, you know Seagulls website is seriously outdated ???? you can't find any of there newer movements, im trying to get in touch with them to get a better idea what to chose

I want to make sure the manufacturer is not giving me a shorter list to chose from, i've been putting a lot of hours in to this

Do you think Seagulls a good choice? now i know the Swiss obviously have the upper hand , no one can argue there but what I'm trying to do is have something of good reliable quality at an affordable price

 

[M.Stanton]

Do you think Seagulls a good choice? now i know the Swiss obviously have the upper hand , no one can argue there but what I'm trying to do is have something of good reliable quality at an affordable price

Well, while the Swiss are obviously on top, but the Chinese are perfectly capable of manufacturing a movement that is reliable. The thing about the Chinese is that you can give them the same st of blueprints and have them churn out a cheap, unreliable movement with terrible QA control for $20/ea or you can pay them 4 or 5 times as much and get something that you can wear for years with no trouble (and that comes fairly close to Swiss quality, though without a perfect QA record... but one that is good enough for any company's standards).

I'm not at all familiar with any of the Chinese companies, so I can't tell you who to talk to to get the best quality, but there is a Chinese watch category forum on this site, and they should be able to tell you from whom you would get the best quality.

 

[dacattoo]

Two thoughts occur to me. Maybe three or four.

1 eta6497. I believe you can find these already skeletonized.

2 Don't forget to order spare parts for repairs. Don't forget you need to have a warranty.

3 Have you already sold these 100 watches? Have you done any R&D on skeletonized watch sales?

That's 5 and I will stop there. I could go on for awhile.

Check this out: http://www.ofrei.com/page1284.html and scroll down the page.


Less than $400 includes complete watch, box and papers, shipping, warranty and the Swiss cachet-you-seek.

This would indicate to me you need to produce your watch for under $150 in order to sell it at $450.