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Discussion Starter #1
Today I had an opportunity to take a shot of the movement in my vintage triple date watch. Any ideas what movement is this? Watch face is not signed, but I reckon it should be quite old piece, maybe from 50s.

Sorry for the bad photo.
DSC_0576.jpg

And the watch face.

DSC_0016.JPG

Thanks in advance.

Zord
 

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Looks fairly recent, actually. And possibly chinese. The hairspring stud is definitely a more recent type, and it looks like the date setting is done via pushers on the side. I'm suspecting a modern "Retro style" piece. Anything written under the balance wheel?
 

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The size of the case is definitely more vintage than modern (presuming a regular sized wristwatch movement). The movement does not match any Chinese movement that I know and for a modern Chinese watch of this style I would expect an automatic movement. The dial does look unusually pristine, especially when there is evidence of wear on the case. So I think that it is a vintage watch but with a completely refurbished (or replicated) dial.

ZORD, do you have a photo of the case back? And where did the watch come from?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks everybody.
The watch is only 30mm in diameter, so the movement has to be approx. 26-28 mm I guess. I think Marrick could be right, but some parts do look a bit different to my untrained eyes. Moon phase definitely works and date and day changes automatically. The only thing I have to change manually is month.

My watchmaker says it is a Swiss movement but he doesn’t know which one exactly, so I had to ask you guys.

Chascomm, the watch is currently being serviced; I will have it in a few days. The case back is steel and it has small stamp "Swiss" on it and three numbers (can’t recall exact numbers right now). The watch was given to me by my father in law, who has a pretty decent vintage collection. Probably came from flea market many years ago.
It is highly unlikely that the dial is refurbished. I am not aware that there is anybody doing that kind of work in my town/country. It probably hasn’t been worn much. Watchmaker said that it looks like it has never been cleaned before.
 

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The watch is only 30mm in diameter, so the movement has to be approx. 26-28 mm I guess. I think Marrick could be right, but some parts do look a bit different to my untrained eyes. Moon phase definitely works and date and day changes automatically.
Well the moonphase must be an uncommon additional complication - very nice indeed. Someone else may know more, of course.
 

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It is highly unlikely that the dial is refurbished. I am not aware that there is anybody doing that kind of work in my town/country. It probably hasn’t been worn much. Watchmaker said that it looks like it has never been cleaned before.
Score! :-!
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Hello everybody,
I got the watch from service yesterday, and checked it for all writtings.
On the movement is engraved 'swiss made', under balance is engraved '10 1120'.
On the underside of the case back is engraved '5437', and ond the upper side 'swiss 12-701'.
That is all, and it is indeed 1100 series I guess, 1120 to be precise.
Here is the link for the movement, albeit there is no info about the complications on this site.
bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: ETA 1120


I guess it could be late 50s or early 60s. No info on the manufacturer of the watch :(
Thank you very much once again,
Zord
 

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It's interesting to compare the different finishing done by the various assemblers:




Your is somewhere between the two examples in the Ranfft archives, having the movable hairspring stud, centre wheel jewel and cap-jewel on the escape wheel, but having the smaller screw-compensated balance wheel.

Regarding the complications; I wonder if there was another maker producing triple-date modules to fit the ETA 1100 series?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It's interesting to compare the different finishing done by the various assemblers:




Your is somewhere between the two examples in the Ranfft archives, having the movable hairspring stud, centre wheel jewel and cap-jewel on the escape wheel, but having the smaller screw-compensated balance wheel.

Regarding the complications; I wonder if there was another maker producing triple-date modules to fit the ETA 1100 series?

Chascomm, thanks for comparison, I had to Google to identify all the parts that you mentioned in your post :).

I have tried to Google about triple date moophase modules from 50s but without luck. Hopefully somebody will have more info on that.
 

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Hi there,

I wonder if there was another maker producing triple-date modules to fit the ETA 1100 series?
It would have been no challenge to add a 59 teeth disc advanced twice a day to the ETA 1164, but I never saw it, neither in the real world nor in any records. Zodiac used a module with calendar and moon phase on the ETA 1100:
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Zodiac_1100
No clue whether Zodiac made it, but I've not yet noticed it on another movement, and ETA would not have been crazy anough to realize such module, since it would have been easy to add it to the 1164.

Regards, Roland Ranfft
 

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I have just looked at the Zodiac full-calendar watch in catalogs from 1952, 1955, and 1961. Not the same--all watches in their catalogs had central seconds not seconds in the moonphase subdial. The Zodiac label is under the Moonphase on earlier models. Later models were automatics, so clearly not the same movement (actually, they are also modular and based on the AS1687 like other Zodiac autos), and "Automatic" was written under the Moonphase display and "Zodiac" was below the day/month windows. The applied markers are similar to Zodiac, including the even-number arabics and odd-number dagger markers, but the minute track and date track on the OP's watch are not the same font or arrangement as I see in the catalogs. But those were pretty standard markers in those days. The Zodiac calendar watches in all those catalogs had integral lugs, not the tear-drop-style lugs we see here. All in all, I'm prepared to reject a Zodiac hypothesis.

I seem to recall that the ETA 1100 series was the tractor for several other full calendar watches in the 50's, in competition with the Venus 203 and the Valjoux 90. Leonidas is one such that I see a lot on Ebay. Dubois-Depraz is as likely a source for moduels as anyonoe; they were certainly in the module business in those days, though as a supplier to the trade they were expected to work confidentially and not much is known about their product lines in the pre-Internet age.

That onion crown bugs me. I've never seen that on a 50's watch. It seems like a replacement, or this movement has been recased. What is stamped on the inside of the case-back? Is the case-back steel?

Rick "doubting that Zodiac made their own modules" Denney
 
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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Roland, thank you very much for the info on that Zodiac. Very interesting stuff.

Rdenney, I guess that onion crown is design from earlier periods, but I think that few manufacturers used it as a design feature through many years? Correct me if I am wrong.
Unfortunately I do not know much about watch history, so cant tell for sure if it was re-cased or not. Case back is definitelly made out of steel, and on the inside it is stamped '5437', and on the outside (back) it is stamped 'swiss 12-701'.

One more info, day is in german, but I guess that doesnt tell much...

Here are some more pictures, with crown detail:

2014-08-26%2007_38_21.jpg

2014-08-26%2007_38_29.jpg

2014-08-26%2007_39_12.jpg

2014-08-26%2007_39_57-1.jpg
 

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Roland, thank you very much for the info on that Zodiac. Very interesting stuff.

Rdenney, I guess that onion crown is design from earlier periods, but I think that few manufacturers used it as a design feature through many years? Correct me if I am wrong.
Unfortunately I do not know much about watch history, so cant tell for sure if it was re-cased or not. Case back is definitelly made out of steel, and on the inside it is stamped '5437', and on the outside (back) it is stamped 'swiss 12-701'.

One more info, day is in german, but I guess that doesnt tell much...

Here are some more pictures, with crown detail:

View attachment 1610386

View attachment 1610387

View attachment 1610388

View attachment 1610389
With no brand markings or other help in what is stamped inside the case back, I'm not sure what else to suggest. (And I see that you had already supplied that information before I asked for it.)

At least you know it's a gold-filled case--meaning plated but probably pretty thickly. Gold watches would have gold case backs.

Roland's listing for the ETA 1120 mentions a Vetta watch for his first movement, and that movement was finished similarly to yours. Vetta was, as I dimly recall, a trade name or acquisition by Wyler, and there are full calendar watches under both of those names. I saw a Wyler of earlier vintage with an approximately similar arrangement (seconds in a subdial at 6) but without the moonphase complication. That might be a useful breadcrumb as you continue your research.

Rick "good luck" Denney
 
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