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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,
Was at mums house today and she dug out these old pocket watches. First was a Doxa Mark V which was really nice but not in the best condition. Then she got out this:

I know it's a Waltham and from the serial number on the movement it's a model 1908, what I don't know is if it's been re-cased as the case has its own serial numbers and is made in England I'm also not sure if it's gold or not as it's a rose type of colour. It was owned by the same man who owned the Doxa Mark V cockpit watch and he was a pilot in WW1. I would love to know more about it. The gold chain that it was on had a stamped number on each link but it's no longer with the watch.

Dial


Movement


Inside Inner case back


Inside Outer case back


Stamp on winder


Anyway that's what I have, it's still 100% working, any more info would be great!

Oh and here's the Doxa I mentioned





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If you don't get many responses here, you might consider reposting this request in the "Pocket Watch and Vintage" forum.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Nokie, didn't know there was one, maybe mods can move it for me I'm on mobile phone and not so easy to do.


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Thanks Nokie, didn't know there was one, maybe mods can move it for me I'm on mobile phone and not so easy to do.


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Moved this time, next time take your time and search for the right forum ;-)
 

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I can't make out the details on the waltham, but it looks like a pretty decent watch. It's missing parts of its regulator assembly though. The dial is typical for Waltham watches imported into England, and it's in a simple rolled-gold case (not solid). Nice, sensible watch for a gentleman. Looks to be from around the 20's or so, but the serial number will tell you more exactly.

The Doxa is marked for the British Army, as far as I can tell...artillery timing piece, possibly.
 

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I retract my "British Army" comment...I based that on a list of military markings found in Callweys "Militar-Taschenuhren", which described it as "Army Weltkrieg. Oft auf 8-tage-uhren" However, Wesolowski's "Concise Guide to Military Timepieces" describes it as "Aviation Issue Mark - Royal Flying Corp pocket watch, 1914-1917", which is more in line with your description of the owner. This book has a picture of a similar dial, and describes it as a "Mark V aviators watch", which was manufactured by Doxa, Electa, Omega and Zenith (amongst others). The 30hr non-luminous was the most common version. I half-suspect that the bow was added later; these watches were designed to sit in a specially designed holder in the cockpit, and wouldn't have had a bow originally. They were specially designed to be able to handle the constant vibration of an airplane.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks guys,
Regarding the Doxa I knew already that it's a Mark V cockpit watch that they used to have in the cockpit of the old biplanes in a mount cushioned by horse hair felt. Thanks for
The extra info though. I was more interested in the Waltham the serial number search said it was a model 1908 but it don't know what the other info means.
SERIAL # is - 24437008
Here is the info from NAWCC page




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Discussion Starter #9
AbslomRob, how can you tell parts are missing? The Waltham winds and works fine the Doxa however is non working, is that the one you were referring to?


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AbsolumRob is referring to missing parts of the regulator, specifically the micro-adjustment screw and the parts that hold it in place. Your watch will run without them, but regulating it will not be as precise as it should be. More important, the Waltham's crystal appears to be yellowing plastic. This can cause rusting from the emitted fumes and should be replaced.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hmm I thought it was glass will have another look on the weekend. The Doxa is plastic.

Any idea of a possible date the Waltham would be made?


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That serial number dates to around 1921. It's a Model 1908 (which refers to the date that this model was first introduced). 16 size was the most common size of the time for men; most railroad watches would have been that size in the 20's, as opposed to the slightly bigger 18 size that was common pre-1900's. 3/4 plate refers to the arrangement of the plates on the back; the balance is on the same "plane" as all the other wheels, so only 3/4 of the back of the watch is covered (to leave space for the balance). Again, that's as opposed to the older 18 size watches which had a full plate , and the balance sat on "top" of that. Grade is just the "specification" that this particular run was finished to. Some grades are named (Like the Vanguard, Crescent St or Traveler grades) and would also be engraved on the plates, but that was somewhat of a marketing exercise; most of the watches just had a numbered grade that was used to differentiate the finish. The grade would tell the watchmaker which parts to use when ordering replacements (because there would be slight differences in things like the pivot shapes, jewel placement and style, etc). Not sure what Bal: 23 means; does it look like a solid ring of metal with screws, or does it look like it has two cuts in it? I can't remember off hand when Waltham introduced their mono-metallic balance wheels. OF is "Open Face" and refers to the watches where the crown exits the movement opposite the sub-second hand (at the 12), as opposed to HC (Hunting Case) where it would come out at the 3. Comment 102 is a reference to a note in the hand-written ledgers; not sure what that refers to.

If you look on the balance cock, you can see a couple of small holes where the fine regulator assembly would have been; likely the screw broke and someone decided to just remove it and the spring block instead of repairing it. It doesn't prevent anything from working, but these regulators are a bit looser then others, so it's more apt to move on its own without those pieces.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
AbslomRob, you sir are a champ!!! Thanks heaps for the info it will be great to go back to mum with.


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Discussion Starter #14
Here's another angle of the movement. Where is the missing part you are talking about supposed to be?


Sorry I'm no watch expert when it comes to movement parts :(


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You 16s Waltham is a model 1908 (as mentioned) and grade 640 of which 5000 were made. What makes yours somewhat unique is the serial number 24437008.
Checking the NAWCC Waltham database, the 640 was made in 4 runs. Serial numbers 2447001 to 24438000 comprise the first run of 1000 movements. So yours would have been the eighth produced. Watches from the first run tend to make them a bit more collectible.
 
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