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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Question says it all. I want to remove the movement from this case. On the Walthans I had, I simply tilt the movement out once edge case screws were removed. I had an Elgin with an obvious stem screw. This movement doesn't tilt out (far enough to clear the case) or have an obvious stem screw.

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My first thought would be: you don't - it's far too valuable a watch to risk ruining it! And if you have to ask, you risk ruining it.....

My second thought would be: it's a free country and if you insist, then go ahead. In which case, I am not certain but now that you have got as far as the "dial off" stage, I suspect that you have to partly dismantle the keyless works (take off the pull out piece and the return bar which also acts as the check spring).

Hartmut Richter
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My first thought would be: you don't - it's far too valuable a watch to risk ruining it! And if you have to ask, you risk ruining it.....

My second thought would be: it's a free country and if you insist, then go ahead. In which case, I am not certain but now that you have got as far as the "dial off" stage, I suspect that you have to partly dismantle the keyless works (take off the pull out piece and the return bar which also acts as the check spring).

Hartmut Richter
Thanks Hartmut. Do not fear, I won't do any disassembly. Removing hands and dial is easy, but movement work is something I will not do.

I was hoping I was missing something obvious. Like "loosen this screw here".

I was hoping to put this in a nice 16s case. It is currently sitting in a brassing lower-mid quality Empress from AWCC. Hardly appropriate for such a nice caliber. If I do this now, unfortunately it will have to go to a trained watchmaker watchmaker.
 

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Some European movements will drop-into USA-Spec 16s cases, some will not. It's been my ( rather limited ! ) experience that, the earlier the Movement, the less likely it is to fit an American case.

The better news, though, is that a considerable number of European watches were sold to USA retailers, with the Jeweler's name on the dial and / or Movement, and these seem to show up with some frequency in American cases.

And: does your watch set & wind as it is? I ask because it's also been my experience that some folks seem to have used American cases as places to store High-Grade European movements...not as places that actually allowed the watch to function! It would have been a quick piece of work to modify a winding stem to allow a movement to be slipped in to a case...and, it's better to have a valuable movement in a non-functioning / worn-out case, that banging about, naked, in a parts box...!

Michael.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Some European movements will drop-into USA-Spec 16s cases, some will not. It's been my ( rather limited ! ) experience that, the earlier the Movement, the less likely it is to fit an American case.

The better news, though, is that a considerable number of European watches were sold to USA retailers, with the Jeweler's name on the dial and / or Movement, and these seem to show up with some frequency in American cases.

And: does your watch set & wind as it is? I ask because it's also been my experience that some folks seem to have used American cases as places to store High-Grade European movements...not as places that actually allowed the watch to function! It would have been a quick piece of work to modify a winding stem to allow a movement to be slipped in to a case...and, it's better to have a valuable movement in a non-functioning / worn-out case, that banging about, naked, in a parts box...!

Michael.
Very interesting Michael. Given that this is in an American (Canadian) case, perhaps it was meant for the American market originally. I am almost positive the case is not original to the movement, so finding another better condition or preferably solid gold 16s AWCC case would be an easy swap for a watchmaker. I does not look like this case (or the movement) has been modified in any way.

Yes, this watch is running beautifully. The Seller had it serviced, and I believe him given it's running about +10 seconds daily. Stellar for a 100 year old watch in my opinion.

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Very interesting Michael. Given that this is in an American (Canadian) case, perhaps it was meant for the American market originally. I am almost positive the case is not original to the movement, so finding another better condition or preferably solid gold 16s AWCC case would be an easy swap for a watchmaker. I does not look like this case (or the movement) has been modified in any way.

Yes, this watch is running beautifully. The Seller had it serviced, and I believe him given it's running about +10 seconds daily. Stellar for a 100 year old watch in my opinion.

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Thanks for the update...sounds like you're doing fine here. I agree that the case is almost certainly an add-on ( make that 99.999% ), and does look OK. The second's hand is from a Waltham 16s--a number of RR Grades used it, and the "645" especially seems to show up with it--and the other hands could well be Waltham.

On a purely personal note, I'd consider a new set of hands if you go with a 14 or 18K case...these look OK, yet there are many other styles of USA hands that would give a more 'refined' look. If these are USA hands, well, other USA hands could be fit as well.

Finally today: just how do you remove this movement from the case? Does is actually wiggle out on its own, or do you need to pull the dial to release the stem...bless my heart, but I cannot quite see how it works! I have worked on a (very) few Swiss PW's that have a mechanism secured into the movement that allows an 'American-style' case to be used, yet I cannot see where this movement is so designed.

And: I, too, own a recased Patek. It's all tucked away--and has been for years!--and was done by a fellow here in the US, in New Hampshire. It's in a USA, YGF screw back & bezel 16s case. It's really well done, by someone perfectly capable of fine work. To my mind, this operation really is not easy or likely to end-up nicely done: unless a Swiss movement was specifically designed to go into an American case, a person has to jump through a few hoops to get it all to work, and actually look good. I bought mine 25 years ago, and paid about what a Hamilton 950 is going for nowadays. Money--methinks!--well spent.

Enjoy yours!

Michael.
 

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Have you tried to loosen this screw?

regards enrico
That would release the pull out piece which I was talking about earlier. Alternatively, come to think of it: there seems to be a notch in the outer rim on the dial side, the other side of the winding stem. Is that for a screw or a spring held pusher? If yes, if you release that or push down on it, can you remove the winding stem then?

Hartmut Richter
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
That would release the pull out piece which I was talking about earlier. Alternatively, come to think of it: there seems to be a notch in the outer rim on the dial side, the other side of the winding stem. Is that for a screw or a spring held pusher? If yes, if you release that or push down on it, can you remove the winding stem then?

Hartmut Richter
Great catch. I may try that in the near future. I'll definitely update if that is a release pin.

I haven't seen release pins except for on some quartz I had; so it didn't even occur to me that could be on a pocket watch.
 

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Have you tried to loosen this screw?

View attachment 15875354

regards enrico
Releasing this would certainly allow the stem to be removed, then the movement could come out.

The weird thing here, though, is that the hands & dial need to be pulled to get at it...could this be what PP intended?!

In every watch that I've ever worked on, the screw to loosen the pull piece is accessed from the OTHER side of the watch...that way ( surprise! ) the stem may be easily removed, and the hands and dial left alone.

I suppose that a 'securing mechanism' ( for want of a better term ) could be designed, such that--although there is a screw-like 'base' on the dial side of the pull piece, there's also a screw on the other side, that's able to actually move the pull piece up & down, and this movement-side screw is what actually controls the stem.

If this design IS what's there, the screw-like item (!) we're seeing on the dial side is more like a replaceable base for the actual release screw, and something meant to be screwed-in at the point of manufacture, then left alone until such time as wear on the other side, compels replacement...??

An image or two of the Movement side should make things a bit more comprehensible.

Michael.
 

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I've seen other PP like this before. To remove the stem it is necessary to disassemble the dial.
Regards enrico
Thanks for the valuable information, Enrico...this is a Good Thing to hear.

( I went back to my Post, and changed "Not what PP intended", to "Could this be what PP intended?!". My language was too strident and assertive the first time around...next time, I'll be more questioning about something I do not know ).

Michael.
 
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