[yankeexpress]

1973, 6139-6002 Resist that has on the dial at 4:30 the designation “-6030R”, English/Arabic day wheel, all functions work properly, replacement bracelet, otherwise seems to be an original survivor sent to me from a seller in Germany.



My curiosity is about the 6030R and what it signifies.

 

[ffnc1020]

1973, 6139-6002 Resist that has on the dial at 4:30 the designation “-6030R”, English/Arabic day wheel, all functions work properly, replacement bracelet, otherwise seems to be an original survivor sent to me from a seller in Germany.



My curiosity is about the 6030R and what it signifies.

Hate to break it to you but I’m 99% sure the dial, indicator ring and all four hands are aftermarket.

 

[yankeexpress]

Hate to break it to you but I’m 99% sure the dial, indicator ring and all four hands are aftermarket.

Ok, I can live with that.

What are the “tells”?

And what does the “-6030R” on the dial indicate?

 

[yankeexpress]

Dbl

 

[ffnc1020]

Ok, I can live with that.

What are the “tells”?

And what does the “-6030R” on the dial indicate?

The original lume triangle on the indicator ring is usually lumpy and not as sharp as this. The original dial subregistor doesn't have the ring pattern, and the markings should reach the very edge of the subdial. The lume on the hour marking are usually very blooby and not as flat. The day window is vertically brushed and date window is polished on the original. The secondhand and minute chrono hand should be a darker chrimson red. The minute and hour hands are hard to tell actually. Also I noticed the pushers are probablly aftermarket because the original pushers are beveled around the top. The two flat surface on the lugs should be polished so the case is most definitly refinished. These are what I spotted so far.

6030R is just a dial code I think. There's also 6030T which I believe just has minor printing differences.

There's no problem with it as long as you enjoy it. It's just there are more and more sellers trying to pass aftermarket part as original. Hope you get a fair deal with this piece.

 

[soulbazz]

The original lume triangle on the indicator ring is usually lumpy and not as sharp as this. The original dial subregistor doesn't have the ring pattern, and the markings should reach the very edge of the subdial. The lume on the hour marking are usually very blooby and not as flat. The day window is vertically brushed and date window is polished on the original. The secondhand and minute chrono hand should be a darker chrimson red. The minute and hour hands are hard to tell actually. Also I noticed the pushers are probablly aftermarket because the original pushers are beveled around the top. The two flat surface on the lugs should be polished so the case is most definitly refinished. These are what I spotted so far.

6030R is just a dial code I think. There's also 6030T which I believe just has minor printing differences.

There's no problem with it as long as you enjoy it. It's just there are more and more sellers trying to pass aftermarket part as original. Hope you get a fair deal with this piece.

This is really enlightening. Thank you for the detailed descriptions.

Yankee - the watch is still a looker! Congratulations

 

[yankeexpress]

The original lume triangle on the indicator ring is usually lumpy and not as sharp as this. The original dial subregistor doesn't have the ring pattern, and the markings should reach the very edge of the subdial. The lume on the hour marking are usually very blooby and not as flat. The day window is vertically brushed and date window is polished on the original. The secondhand and minute chrono hand should be a darker chrimson red. The minute and hour hands are hard to tell actually. Also I noticed the pushers are probablly aftermarket because the original pushers are beveled around the top. The two flat surface on the lugs should be polished so the case is most definitly refinished. These are what I spotted so far.

6030R is just a dial code I think. There's also 6030T which I believe just has minor printing differences.

There's no problem with it as long as you enjoy it. It's just there are more and more sellers trying to pass aftermarket part as original. Hope you get a fair deal with this piece.

Thanks for the enlightenment. Seems as some of the replacement parts are actually better than the originals....less bloby and sharper edges, etc. Since the dial has the Suwa mark, I thought it might be original with restored indices.

Prolly paid a little too much, but not outrageously so and I like that it works as intended, keeps accurate time and looks decent. It has been serviced (no small thing at 45 years old) and I can wear it without worrying about it much, though I will not go near water with it.

Seller did not make any false claims about it.....made no mention of originality (excepting the aftermarket bracelet). I will consider it “restored with aftermarket parts” and enjoy it for what it is, a nice old restored Pogue.

 

[nixt]

Hi everyone, it's my first post (and my first SEIKO) so please bear with me.

Just received my 6139-0000, bought after some reserach on the interesting history of the model and on how to spot fakes (I take advantage to thanks this forum/post members).

It should be (to my unexpert eyes) a nice JDM from may 1970 and it works quite fine (just arrived so I'm still have to know it better though)

I especially like the notched case and the 70m proof dial. Dial chips are a pity, but I knew it before buying.

What I'm not quite sure about are the hands, the buttons and the bracelet, any thought?
More in general, do you see anything else I can't spot?







Looking forward to your comments!

p.s.
any chance you can recommend me some online shop where to buy NOS parts, the dial in particular? none on ebay...

 

[trott3r]

The sub dial red hand is tear drop in shape i believe so that is a replacement straight hand you have there.

 

[trott3r]

To see the factory symbol you will have to move the hands. The symbol is covered by the red large seconds hand so set the chrono going and stop it.

 

[nixt]

To see the factory symbol you will have to move the hands. The symbol is covered by the red large seconds hand so set the chrono going and stop it.

The logo is there (sorry for the bad quality picture).

I guess there's no way to restore the dial chips, right?

 

[nixt]

And the picture...

 

[trott3r]

I dont know about the dial chips but i would of guessed it would be unlikely.

 

[richardb22]

Dear All,

In the last two years allowing myself a little luxury I have purchased three watches . An Orient Blue Ray from new. A spectacular diver with a sunburst blue dial. A Seiko Alpinist ( second owner) It just makes me smile. And now a Seiko 6139 6002 May 1975 "Pogue".

I did my research.

The pictures that follow are why I believe I got a good un .

If I am wrong it is still a beautiful piece to me but others might like to know where I got it wrong.

Reason 1. Sharp edges top and sides.No signes of being polished/ground down. Hints of circular brushing/Matt on the top face and polished sides.



Reason 2 Dial and Lume. Not splodgy rectangular and even .


Reason 3. Subdial . The is no gap between the edge of the sundial and the circular cut out on the main dial.


Reason 4. Watch hands the minute and hour hands are just about tapered and indeed you can see a ridge lengthwise . The subdial is a teardrop and the second hand tapered.



Reason 4 Provenance . The seller did not have a history of selling similar watches. He sold vintage and domestic watches stock no more than 20 watches at a time. Many of his older watches were spares or repairs leading me to think he does not restore watches though this watch was sold with a new glass face.

Reason 5. The strap looks like a real deal variant of the time. The Back is appropriate .

Reason six. The main winder has a dimple.

So there you have it. With this watch you are buying a lovely sunburst yellow/honey dial and a timer and some history.

I have the first two.

I do wonder about should the face and bezel be more worn. But then I look at it and even the yellow inner bezel has not faded that much. So it was worn rarely by a lady vicar who kept it in a draw mostly. YES I got a result!

Best to all on the thread


Richardb22

 

[Rusty427]

Great thread
Any recommended watchmaker for service in Aus?

Cheers

 

[trott3r]

richardb22: i believe theoriginal bracelet is h shaped rather your jubilee like type.

 

[richardb22]

Appreciate your reply. I got my info from many places including the springbar collectors guide ( can't post a link but google will bring it up). The third picture looks like my bracelet

THE 6139 BRACELET

There are four known variations for the bracelets of the 6139-600X series. The first one being the H-link bracelet with straight ends, which was used on the 6139-600X series from its introduction until 1973. After this period, the H-link bracelet with tapered ends were used until the end of production. Another variation is what is commonly termed as the Stelux bracelet. It is unsure when this particular type was used, but is usually seen combined with the silver dial. The last variation is those seen for the versions intended for the Japanese market, or what is commonly referred to as “JDM bracelets”. This variation was used for the JDM models all throughout

So mine is a 1975 and looks like the Stelux which conceivably works?

I admit I could be wrong on every point but no one can say he did not do his research. I did to the best of my understanding.

Many years ago I read an essay by Umberto Ecco called faith in fakes ( author of a lot of stuff and films too ) . Why is the THE Mona Lisa worth more than a perfect copy?

My answer . It connects me with the past in my mind.

Wore the watch again today. It's certainly getting wrist time.

In the next six months I am going to buy another seiko. A bellmatic. An actual bell on your wrist. Brilliant.

Richard

 

[trott3r]

Appreciate your reply. I got my info from many places including the springbar collectors guide ( can't post a link but google will bring it up). The third picture looks like my bracelet

THE 6139 BRACELET

There are four known variations for the bracelets of the 6139-600X series. The first one being the H-link bracelet with straight ends, which was used on the 6139-600X series from its introduction until 1973. After this period, the H-link bracelet with tapered ends were used until the end of production. Another variation is what is commonly termed as the Stelux bracelet. It is unsure when this particular type was used, but is usually seen combined with the silver dial. The last variation is those seen for the versions intended for the Japanese market, or what is commonly referred to as “JDM bracelets”. This variation was used for the JDM models all throughout

So mine is a 1975 and looks like the Stelux which conceivably works?

I admit I could be wrong on every point but no one can say he did not do his research. I did to the best of my understanding.

Many years ago I read an essay by Umberto Ecco called faith in fakes ( author of a lot of stuff and films too ) . Why is the THE Mona Lisa worth more than a perfect copy?

My answer . It connects me with the past in my mind.

Wore the watch again today. It's certainly getting wrist time.

In the next six months I am going to buy another seiko. A bellmatic. An actual bell on your wrist. Brilliant.

Richard

I am no expert so thanks for the extra information.
Reading the springbar article now.

Mine is a 1975 pogue like ( no 70m water resist) and has the tapered h link bracelet.
It is however off ebay so who knows how original the parts are but looks good to me from a bit of googling.

I am intrigued by the bellmatic and also the weekedater.
Pesky vintage seikos there are too many nice looking ones about.

 

[trott3r]

Boo my sub dial indices don't hit the edge of the dial. Does this indicate after market as per springbar guide above?

 

[richardb22]

Boo my sub dial indices don't hit the edge of the dial. Does this indicate after market as per springbar guide above?

I would like you to imagine a scenario . Your May 1975 pogue was owned by a dashing special services operative who in 1976 was into racing Yacuza gangsters up Mount Fuji in an e type jag.

On the final race neck and neck on the final 50m the Jag finds a horsepower of extra torque and finishes first but not before the tretcheros gangster has slammed him into tree.

Our hero exits the Jag and finds that his Seiko Pogue has taken the impact and saved his wrist. Its dial is smashed ( he had his arm dangling out the window at the time smoking a well known brand of 1975 cigarettes).

The next day he takes it to be repaired with an aftermarket dial which is a few months older than the watch itself. So the after market dial is 48 years old !. What a watch ?

Or maybe that did not happen and its an afterdial made last year and fitted by a teenager in somewhere.

Oh to get to the point. I am not an expert and have only seen the one I brought. I have never opened one up. I read a lot.

I have tried in my purchase to buy a watch I had faith in. I had a lot of fun ( pain sometimes ) in agonising over watches I saw on ebay. Missed some , in retrospect good ones. They all looked good ( except the clearly 48 years old ones authentic but not wearable ). A leap of faith. For the reasons above I think its original apart from new glass and that was a criteria for me.

Would I wear a fake ? No.

Would I wear a watch that has been worn as watch should be and has repairs . Yes . Would I prefer one that had not. Yes.

I can't answer your question. These watches are old .

A final thought. If I were to give my "pogue " to my son ( 5 years old ) by the time he wears it it will be 70+ years old. If its still all original by then I wont have worn it much.

It's yours now. Wear it . If you don't wear it its pointless so sell it and someone else will wear or not.

Richard