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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
OK, obviously I read all the relevant threads but I still want to prepare well before I possibly wreck a brand new G. :)

I'm planning on doing the conversion with an incoming GW-9010 Mudman.

The thing I wonder about most is how to fill it with the oil. Of course, it has to be heated. But then I wonder about the bubble. I read a 3mm bubble is desirable because of expansion of the oil when it gets hot. But is it necessary?

Then the question: Is it better to actually submerge the entire watch into a pot of oil and screwing the case back together under water, so to speak? This should guarantee to not get a bubble at all or at least a very small one.

With the syringe method, I wonder how you can do it so that there is only a 3mm bubble.

If the bubble is not really necessary, I'd prefer to have none, for looks. OTOH, I could probably live with it as the little bubble will show off the mod I did and, frankly, this is mostly a bragging rights mod, if we are honest.

EDIT: You can find sappyg's instructions and pics on page 3 and mine on page 5.

Here are some more links that are relevant:
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=353307&highlight=hydro+g-Shock
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=8796&highlight=hydro+g-Shock
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=1245&highlight=hydro+g-Shock
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=84289&highlight=hydro+g-Shock

EDIT 2: The actual thread has grown much longer with more important and useful info. This here is just a dead version archived at one time. If you want to read or contribute to the actual thread, go here:
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=400886


Till
 

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Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

i'm seriously considering a hydro job myself.

from the hydro how to i read that was translated from spanish one of the concerns i have is a kind of mention that hydro does not do well on solar G's..... this could be the result of a bad translation....

i think you will need the bubble (especially that you live in texas), for normal heat expansion. as i understand it.... the bubble gets bigger in cold temps.... so i should stay fairly small for you.
 

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Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

it must have been the translation..... the watch in the tutorial looks to be atomic/ solar.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

I read quite a few posts where they say that solar and atomic are not in the least influenced. I prefer to go solar so that I don't need to open the watch for a whole while.

I am also thinking of applying some additional silicone caulk to seal the outer case.

Thanks for the link, Trase!

Till
 

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Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

that's a great link trase
:think:.... maybe the bubble really is'nt needed after all.
if you are diving the water would likely be cooler than the air temp anyway.

where are you getting the silicone oil? silicone grease is easy to come by at any hardware store but i've never looked for silicone oil.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

Question on oil!

Ferrolano uses a 20 weight it seems. Tiger uses #1000 grade. Is that the same? Does it matter? It could matter. Radio reception, solar and shock absorbency might be influenced.

Also, where to buy? It seems air gun and RC toy car shops might have it. Don't know if we have that in town. Might have to order it.

This seems to be the right thing but it's darn expensive:
http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Silicone...=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1274044692&sr=8-31

Since it appears to be used in cosmetics and against lice, there is a chance a pharmacy would have it.

Till
 

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Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

Found out some more:

Products Description: Clearco Pure Silicone Fluids are clear, colorless and odorless linear 100% polydimethylsiloxane (CAS # 63148-62-9) fluids that range in viscosity from 0.65cSt to 20,000,000 (20 million) cSt.

Viscosities above 5cSt are characterized by their wide service temperature range, high resistance to oxidation, high damping action, excellent lubricity, compatibility with o-rings, gaskets and valve materials, and high dielectric strength.

Lower viscosities are characterized by their low pour points, low temperature stability, low viscosity and low viscosity change (even at extremely low temperatures), low surface tension, high compressibility and high dielectric strength.

From: http://www.clearcoproducts.com/standard_pure_silicones.html

So what would make sense? To oil weapons they use a 1.5 oil. For RC cars apparently 10 oils are used. Is that a linear scale? If so 1000 must be very dense.

EDIT: I read a little more on the same site. In "Standard viscosity oils" you can see that the standard grade is probably the most useful for our application. The 1000CST (centi-Stokes) will have the highest shock absorbency I guess. Expansion factors are all the same, so that doesn't play a role.

The higher grades starting at 5000 are really not liquid anymore, more like molasses. Check the little picture to the left of the description.

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Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

that stuff looks way too expensive....
i think i'll check with an equipment rental place tomorrow and my grader. surely they need or know where to locate the silicone oil.

it's starting to sound a lot like hydrolic fluid.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

I think it is exactly what they used for hydraulic fluids.

Till
 

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Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

I think it is exactly what they used for hydraulic fluids.

Till
should this be the case the question now is whether to use light weight or heavey weight yes?....

most equipment operators go light in the winter and heavier in the summer. but in this application i'm guessing light weight would be more desirable.... no moving parts to worry about plus you would need the fluid to move quickly and fill all voids.
 

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Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

Please don't take this question as smart-alecky, but why would you want to do this conversion on a relatively inexpensive watch? It's my understanding that the oil filling is performed for instruments that are under immense pressure, ie: deep water. Since you can't compress a liquid those instruments are kept safe. Usually they come from the factory that way and I've had instruments (boost gauges for my car) that were oil filled for accuracy reasons.....
Is there another reason to perform this on a G-Shock, or any watch for that matter?
Cheers,
Chris
 

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Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

possible bennifits are increased legibility and temp stability..., plus it sounds kinda cool b-)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

Additionally you get better shock proof and water proof ratings. But essentially it's just for bragging rights and the modding adventure, as I said in the first post.

You basically get one of the toughest watches on the planet for less than $200. Believe me, I wouldn't open up a Rolex for a hydro conversion though I'm sure it has been done.

Till
 

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Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

So did you arrive to any conclusion regarding the bubble ? does the silicon really expand at high temperatures ? is the bubble really needed ?
Because the mod seems easier to perform by plunging the case inside the silicon, without creating any bubble.
 

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Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

Personally, I would go for no bubbles (although I suppose with a small one you could "show off" the mod a bit more). Since the watch will probably never see a fraction of its new WR, the functionality of having a bubble for expansion is not necessary.
 

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Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

So did you arrive to any conclusion regarding the bubble ? does the silicon really expand at high temperatures ? is the bubble really needed ?
Because the mod seems easier to perform by plunging the case inside the silicon, without creating any bubble.
Personally, I would go for no bubbles (although I suppose with a small one you could "show off" the mod a bit more). Since the watch will probably never see a fraction of its new WR, the functionality of having a bubble for expansion is not necessary.
I think I will try the plunging method. If there is a bubble it will be minimal. If I want to make it bigger it should be easier to open the case just a tiny bit and squeeze some oil out than to try and fill it and then quickly close it to only leave a tiny bubble. The other thing is that you might not even see the bubble of it's "captured" behind the module. I don't know if there are any separate nooks and crannies in the case.

Expansion should be due to temperature not due to pressure.

If you look at the Clearco products specs the thermal charts tell you that higher density (higher viscosity) oil has less expansion but they are all fairly close. So I don't think there is much to fear by not having a bubble if the highest temperature the watch will ever be at is around 60C. The flash point is around 350C.

Water has a viscosity of 1cSt. I read ketchup, surely there are different types, has a viscosity of 50000cSt. SAE40 motor oil is between 650-900.
http://www.vp-scientific.com/Viscosity_Tables.htm

If you put oil in a watch with moving parts, I think a low viscosity would be better. But in a watch with no moving parts (is the A.EL. sensor exposed to the oil?) a thick oil would give better water resistance and shock proofing.

In the posts I've seen people have used oils between 350 and 1000 cSt. I think I'd try the 1000 unless someone explains to me why that's too thick or I can't source it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polydimethylsiloxane

Interestingly, silicone oil is what is used in silicone breast implants. I'd be interested to know in what viscosity grade. Gives a whole new meaning to G-Shock hydro conversions. ;)


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Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

So according to you the denser oil expands less at high temperature. And doesn't interfere either with electronic components. So it seems to be better for that. Are there any downsides ? just assuming, maybe the weight (even though it shouldn't be felt), and maybe the visibility (I suppose less dense oil would give better visibility?...)
Now with the breast implant issue : I guess they started to use a less dense silicone just lately, because the older implants are often hard and so not appropriate IMO !
 

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Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

Personally, I would go for no bubbles (although I suppose with a small one you could "show off" the mod a bit more). Since the watch will probably never see a fraction of its new WR, the functionality of having a bubble for expansion is not necessary.
I have no experience with Hydro mods, but I know the bubble is indeed needed to compensate for expansion of the oil. I remember there was a test with a Mudman without a bubble that "exploded" after getting warm.

For more information you might contact ADAN of Commando-G. Unfortunately he doesn't speak English well, but he might help you further.

http://www.risingsunwatches.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=42

Cheers,

Sjors
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Re: Hydro Oil conversion - Help me prepare

So according to you the denser oil expands less at high temperature. And doesn't interfere either with electronic components. So it seems to be better for that. Are there any downsides ? just assuming, maybe the weight (even though it shouldn't be felt), and maybe the visibility (I suppose less dense oil would give better visibility?...)
Now with the breast implant issue : I guess they started to use a less dense silicone just lately, because the older implants are often hard and so not appropriate IMO !
Well, let's say according to how I understand what i read and not according to me. :) Both are equally di-electric. Visibility? Good point. I bet nobody has ever wondered about the refraction index of a damping fluid. :) Something with a density close to water would probably have the better optical qualities under water. Actually the denser stuff is closer to water in density but still not quite as dense. The lighter oil flows like water (viscosity) but is much lighter in specific weight (density). Chalk one more down for the higher range.

Regarding implants, they actually used different methods, from a bag filled with oil in the very beginning to harder gel substances. It's an interesting topic and the gel bleed is actually directly related to the oil formulation. Very technical stuff. But, hey, I'm a bloody art historian, so what do I know?

Weight difference is likely less than a gram I suspect. Quantities are minimal.

The only thing that may make a difference is the auto light sensor.

Till
 
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