For some reason grand seiko does not appeal to me at all. The whole grand seiko line up and their prices leave me cold. I love the skx007 and the lower end and the Marinemaster SBDX017 at the higher end of the prospex line but the GS side of things just does not appeal to me.

 

Have you worn or held one in your hands? The finishing is really something to behold.

-- Wayne

 

Much ado about nothing--many find the technology quite suitable for the present age--if you don't like it, don't buy it

 

Recently, I attended a Grand Seiko event at my favorite watch shop, where a Seiko watchmaker from Japan did a demonstration of the Grand Seiko movement.

I was surprised to learn of the quartz oscillator and coil and whatnot. No wonder they're so accurate: they're "cheating". Until then, I thought the watches were entirely mechanical. The Grand Seiko representative explained it all to me. I thanked him, but as a Swiss mechanical watch guy, I left knowing that Grand Seiko watches are not for me.

 

Recently, I attended a Grand Seiko event at my favorite watch shop, where a Seiko watchmaker from Japan did a demonstration of the Grand Seiko movement.

I was surprised to learn of the quartz oscillator and coil and whatnot. No wonder they're so accurate: they're "cheating". Until then, I thought the watches were entirely mechanical. The Grand Seiko representative explained it all to me. I thanked him, but as a Swiss mechanical watch guy, I left knowing that Grand Seiko watches are not for me.

You do know that they do purely mechanical watches too right?! It is only the Spring Drive watches that aren't purely mechanical.

I have a Hi Beat that is every bit as mechanical, accurate and well made as any comparable Swiss watch, and many that are a much higher price...

 

I don't like Mercedes hands and one of my buddies has a fear of garden gnomes.

 

20 years is a long time. If Seiko doesn't have parts for Spring Drive after 20 years (that's an "if", because Seiko might have parts for Spring Drive as long as they keep making it), then the watch had a good run. Some people sell their watches way before 20 years is up. Watches don't have to last forever.

I don't love Spring Drive either, but some people do, and that's okay.

 

20 years is a long time. If Seiko doesn't have parts for Spring Drive after 20 years (that's an "if", because Seiko might have parts for Spring Drive as long as they keep making it), then the watch had a good run. Some people sell their watches way before 20 years is up. Watches don't have to last forever.

I hope Seiko will make parts for SDs as long as I'm alive but I'd be one po'd consumer if my lovely SDGA105 could not be repaired.

Btw, 20 years pass by a lot faster than you might think...

 

Horology is the study of the measuring of time and the art of making watches and clocks.
If you're having to make up your own definitions to support your bias/prejudices then that should be a clue as to your opinions' worth.

 

So your opinion is the "truth" and his opinion is a "made up definition based on bias"? How so? What makes you opinion more "worthy"?

Anyone is entitled to his own opinion...as one of the posters so vividly put it, if you don't like it don't buy it.

In this case, if you don't like it you don't have to reply?

If SD is the only logical evolution of horology, GS should make SD movements only and stop manufacturing their mechanical movements?

I don't like SD neither. The only reason I'm even into watches these days (when the correct time is always available on my cell phone) is that I think these little machines on wrist, devoid of any electronics, is a marvel of watchmaking. How the escapement work with everything else to correctly tell time is truly amazing. Install a crystal and an IC, while as innovative as it seems, is cheating in my book.

Does the simple fact that I'm not into SD make me a lessor GS lover? I love the fact that they make perfectly fine mechanical watches with respectable calibers with very good accuracy and impeccable finishing.

And I agree with OP....HOWEVER, he probably should have picked a GS mechanical piece in the first place and I'm sure he'll just love it.

BTW, I just had my 30 year old Rolex 6694 serviced at the local RSC...nothing really needed replacement as the watch was running just fine before. But they replaced the plexi crystal, all gaskets and crown and tube to ensure WR just in case.

While we're not sure if SD really need any parts replaced, would the IC or the circuit hold up for 20 years? I don't know...but if the OysterQuartz from the 80s is any indication then there should be no problem for the GS SD to last at least that long.

I only know that if a mechanical watch is serviced regularly they have no problem serving me my entire lifetime. And thus far I have yet to have a mechanical watch break down on me. Can't say the same for my quartz pieces from my younger days...none of my Seiko quartz pieces from that era (granted they were cheap, a few hundred dollars a pop) survived more than 6 years tops.

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Okay

 

To the OP
If you don't like it, don't buy it

 

I like pancakes.

 

I like turtles.

 

First world problem: being able to wear a mechanical watch with quartz-like accuracy and a perfectly smooth sweeping second hand, but turning your nose up to it because its, "not mechanical enough."

Regards,
Alysandir

 

First world problem: being able to wear a mechanical watch with quartz-like accuracy and a perfectly smooth sweeping second hand, but turning your nose up to it because its, "not mechanical enough."

Regards,
Alysandir

I have a lot of respect for GS and the Spring Drive movement, but let's be honest, the SD has quartz-like accuracy because it's regulated by quartz. This is by no means a knock on SD, or me turning my nose up, it's just fact.

Some people love to compare the Spring Drive's accuracy to mechanical watches, forgetting that the SD's accuracy is a result of quartz and not mechanical means.

 

I don't doubt their quality at all. It's just somthing about them that leaves me cold. This couldn't change if i wear to see one in the metal but living in Northern Ireland I've never had the chance.

Hopefully when the Seiko boutique opens in London later this year I can make a trip to handle various seikos I'm interested in

 

I don't doubt their quality at all. It's just somthing about them that leaves me cold. This couldn't change if i wear to see one in the metal but living in Northern Ireland I've never had the chance.

Hopefully when the Seiko boutique opens in London later this year I can make a trip to handle various seikos I'm interested in

Weirs in Dublin were recently appointed a GS dealer.

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If I'm still around (and it's a big if) in 20 years time my main concern would not be whether Seiko could supply the parts but whether my measly pension would stretch to the repair in the first place.

 

Cesium clocks are part of the horological sciences why not the Springdrive? As for personal taste I think Dr Gozo above said it best: "I like pancakes".

I might add I don't like Lobster; probably 90% of the people on this board will disagree with me.


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The idea pure mechanical watches can last forever is based on the assumption that the parts will be available or can be manufactured. Lets say you have a Rolex that you bought in 1950s for $100 and today you need to have parts replaced and service, the service cost is $1000, 10x the price you paid. So whether a watch will last forever depends on how much you are willing to pay not whether a certain component is available. In 20 years you can probably talk to your star trek communicator to have Seiko "print" the require parts and the required parts fitted into the watch by your robot servant.

 

It's only one piece of chocolate and you always have choices.
From your posts it looks like you like to stir the pot, eh?

As you already know, Spring Drive is a unique movement that combines the high torque of a mechanical watch with the high precision integrated circuit (IC) control system of an electronic watch

This is a special hybrid movement developed by Seiko which delivered an outstanding accuracy. Some claim that their Grand Seiko Spring Drive could deliver an accuracy of nearly zero or one second per weeks. When you look at the second hand move smoothly, you almost can feel the time fly by. That's so amazing that there is no other brand is the world could do before.

Yes, I have to admit that this movement is so unique, so special and innovative. How ever, there are some things behind that make me not totally love it 100%. Here they are:
- They are not a pure mechanical watch. Think about that, the movement is just awesome but it has ... circuitboard inside, just like you have a ring but with an artificial diamond on it. You have the feeling that it is not perfect
- A pure mechanical watch could be long lasting for generations if they are taken care / serviced periodically. But there are some sources of information that the life span of the IC of Spring Drive movement is around 20 years. Think about that. They will not be there forever with you. An who know 20 years later, Seiko still supply the replacement parts for you???!!!
- And finally, who know if the electronic parts could easily be damaged due to magnetic, or strong heat? Or anything else, who know!!!

So, owning Spring Drive, you have the best innovative and creative movement in the world, more accuracy, you could feel the time (more better than a pure mechanical watch). But to me, it could not surpass a pure mechanical watch in horology concept, never!

How do you think?

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As you already know, Spring Drive is a unique movement that combines the high torque of a mechanical watch with the high precision integrated circuit (IC) control system of an electronic watch

- A pure mechanical watch could be long lasting for generations if they are taken care / serviced periodically. But there are some sources of information that the life span of the IC of Spring Drive movement is around 20 years. Think about that. They will not be there forever with you. An who know 20 years later, Seiko still supply the replacement parts for you???!!!
- And finally, who know if the electronic parts could easily be damaged due to magnetic, or strong heat? Or anything else, who know!!!

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I switched from electrical engineering to comp sci when I was in school nearly 20 years ago, so anyone else feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but some of the main things that cause ICs to wear are oxidation and heat. The 9R spring drive in most applications sits inside a weather sealed case with a purely mechanical power reserve, limiting the need to store ant significant energy with capacitors and such.

A) I don't really see any reason why this part of the mechanism wouldn't last several lifetimes, and

B) I don't see why replacement parts are any more or less of a concern than other bespoke movement parts of any in-house movement, should a manufacturer decide to discontinue it.

Side note, totally enjoying my old logo SBGA083!

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I think Bulova Accutron II sweep second hand quartz movement is better since both have circuit board inside.

 

OP - Is there any chance that one or two of your future threads can be positive (Mech Chronos are pointless, the sale of Brietling has lost its heritage and Spring Drive is doomed to failure in a few years time)

 

As you already know, Spring Drive is a unique movement that combines the high torque of a mechanical watch with the high precision integrated circuit (IC) control system of an electronic watch

This is a special hybrid movement developed by Seiko which delivered an outstanding accuracy. Some claim that their Grand Seiko Spring Drive could deliver an accuracy of nearly zero or one second per weeks. When you look at the second hand move smoothly, you almost can feel the time fly by. That's so amazing that there is no other brand is the world could do before.

Yes, I have to admit that this movement is so unique, so special and innovative. How ever, there are some things behind that make me not totally love it 100%. Here they are:
- They are not a pure mechanical watch. Think about that, the movement is just awesome but it has ... circuitboard inside, just like you have a ring but with an artificial diamond on it. You have the feeling that it is not perfect
- A pure mechanical watch could be long lasting for generations if they are taken care / serviced periodically. But there are some sources of information that the life span of the IC of Spring Drive movement is around 20 years. Think about that. They will not be there forever with you. An who know 20 years later, Seiko still supply the replacement parts for you???!!!
- And finally, who know if the electronic parts could easily be damaged due to magnetic, or strong heat? Or anything else, who know!!!

So, owning Spring Drive, you have the best innovative and creative movement in the world, more accuracy, you could feel the time (more better than a pure mechanical watch). But to me, it could not surpass a pure mechanical watch in horology concept, never!

How do you think?

View attachment 11734818

View attachment 11734810

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

The spring drive has no battery and is powered by a spring only, therefore it is a horological innovation in itself. Cry morrrreeeeeee n3wb!!!!!

 

- A pure mechanical watch could be long lasting for generations if they are taken care / serviced periodically. But there are some sources of information that the life span of the IC of Spring Drive movement is around 20 years. Think about that. They will not be there forever with you. An who know 20 years later, Seiko still supply the replacement parts for you???!!!

That's the myth collectors who prefer mechanicals tell themselves. That's not the reality. First thing, the ability to service, repair or replace an old movement depends on whether they were or weren't highly-circulated and mass produced movements. If we are talking about current ETA 2824s and Miyota 8s, then this is easy. But it is harder for movements that were mass manufactured, but no longer in production. Perhaps you can replace one with one from an old watch found on eBay. But those high-circulation movements are increasingly less in circulation because wear and tear rears its ugly head.

As for movements were produced in fewer numbers and are no longer in production? Forget it. If your movement was produced by Longines (which used to be a full manufacture, but is now part of Swatch Group and no longer produces movements), then you have little chance of getting that movement replaced. Same if the movement is a highly-modified version that was specially made for the brand that produced the watch. More than likely, that movement isn't getting replaced once wear and tear rears its ugly head, which is likely since it is expensive to service movements in the first place.

More-importantly, there is the reality that watchmaking schools are producing fewer folks who can skillfully service and repair any watch, much less those older watches still ticking. Even if you can find a replacement movement, finding the watchmaker is hard to do unless you go to an independent jeweler with a guy on premises; that can end up costing a pretty penny (and that's if they want to take time better-spent quickly servicing an Omega to do that).

The concern you express about the Spring Drive can also apply to any mechanical movement. In fact, because Seiko is one of the Big Seven watchmaking groups and is unlikely to go out of business any time soon, the problem is more-applicable to mechanicals than to any Spring Drive.

That said, if you prefer a pure mechanical movement over a hybrid such as Spring Drive, you are entitled to do so. For me, Spring Drive is an interesting, novel, and innovative technology. I would be more than happy to own a Spring Drive Snowflake.

 

robots are taking over the world and they will be happier replacing spring drive parts than overly adorned in house parts

 

The ic isn't going to automatically fail in 20 years. The main reasons electronics fail is because of capacitors, I don't see any in this movement.

That said, I really want a snowflake! I'm patient and watching the used market...

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The ic isn't going to automatically fail in 20 years. The main reasons electronics fail is because of capacitors, I don't see any in this movement.

That said, I really want a snowflake! I'm patient and watching the used market...

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Or oxidation on the circuit/contact points

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So the OP doesn't like chrono graphs and spring drive movements and yet all of you keep replying to him.... [emoji848][emoji848][emoji848]

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But to me, it could not surpass a pure mechanical watch in horology concept, never!
How do you think?]

I think that is sheer poppycock. To illustrate I'll use an analogy.
1965 Porsche 911 - great car with no electronic integrated circuits

2016 Porsche 911 - great car loaded with sensors and electronic integrated circuits.

Is the 2016 less a part of Porsche's automotive history than the 1965? Nope.

 

While I completely agree with you. Your analogy puts me in mind of a few years ago when I wanted a pickup truck without electronics. Like from the 1960s. This was going to be my forever Zombie Apocalypse truck because I know I could fix anything on it.

Still i prefer to drive my BMW.


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While I completely agree with you. Your analogy puts me in mind of a few years ago when I wanted a pickup truck without electronics. Like from the 1960s. This was going to be my forever Zombie Apocalypse truck because I know I could fix anything on it.

Still i prefer to drive my BMW.

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I'm not a survivalist shopper and rather like the idea of pivoting past zombies in a stylish BMW but I saw a TV program espousing older trucks for the EMP reason. Perhaps, but there are other factors to consider for a "bug out" vehicle than resistance to EMP caused by nukes. Fuel efficiency and range, capacity for your precious cargo, room for provisions, 4WD, robustness, etc. But what is interesting though is to see that the watches the survivalists websites recommend are tough feature packed quartz brands like G-Shocks.