WatchUSeek Watch Forums banner
1 - 20 of 47 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
760 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·


Missed it by that much!

Back in the early 2010's Orient Watch Co. came out with a mid-priced (for them) diver, called the Revolver; it was a bridge between their budget divers, like the Mako, and their flagship, the Saturation Diver. While information on what the Big O does as a company is pretty thin on the ground, they apparently made the Revolver for a few years, then discontinued it:



The fabulous Orient Revolver, pic from Yeoman's Watch Blog

The Revolver was, at the time, a really, really good dive watch; while it was in the same market niche as the Seiko Sumo, it wore better, was nearly as nicely finished, and looked like no other dive watch on the market. Since then, Orient's been thrashing around with several M-Force models to fill the mid-price diver's void, and none of them were very good. They were too big, or looked stupid, or had various dumb issues (I had one with very loose collars in the bracelet). None of them got within a mile of the quality and look of the Revolver.

Then, late last year, Orient released a new mid-priced diver, the Triton:





Officially called the--take a breath--RA-EL0002L00A, and dubbed the Triton on various fora. It looks very similar to the OS300, which is still the benchmark Japanese dive watch for under a grand US. Naturally, the various fora exploded with delight over the Triton--finally, no more goofy M-Force divers! Orient shrunk the OS300 down to a wearable size, which is what they should have done all along. Plus, it had solid endlinks, and even a sapphire crystal! It was if the suits at Orient Japan finally broke with the Seiko doctrine of never paying attention to collectors.

Before I burst the balloon, some specs to talk about: the size of the Triton is 42.6mm 9-3, 46.9mm including crown, 14.2mm thick (as opposed to the door-jamb-busting 16.5mm of the OS300), 50mm lug to lug. Lug width is 22mm, with a minor taper down to 20mm at the clasp. So far, so good--instead of the M-Force divers, which grew bigger with each generation, the Triton's pared down to almost the size of an SKX007. The stainless steel case is rated to 200 meters of WR, and inside is the Orient caliber 40N5A, a 22 jewel automatic that runs at 6 beats per second; it is the same movement as is used in the OS300, and unlike early Orient movements, it's hand-windable and hackable. Mine runs at about 10 seconds fast per day.

The Triton is available in three examples, a black dial, blue dial, and black with gold accents on the bezel. The MSRP in the US is about $700.

So, a few things that Orient got right: the size, which is big, no error, but not clownishly big. A sapphire crystal, check, solid endlinks, check. The bracelet, which isn't extremely good and rattles like a vintage Rambler sedan, is held together with pins and collars, although at least the collars are fitted into the center link, and so sizing the watch isn't a total descent into hell. The caseback's nicely finished, too:



The dial, at least in the blue, is great; a slight sunburst look, with all the printing and hour markers well finished:



The lume is as you'd expect:



The case finishing is pretty good--not Sumo good, but then, nothing else is Sumo good for this price--but it's pretty clear that Orient spent some time on the polishing:



The bezel is easy to turn and, in fact, reminds me of the OS300. It's got a little too much backplay for me to love it, but it does the job OK.

Now the bad news.

The crown is easily the worst I've used in a dive watch at practically any price; the OS300's crown operated like a German-made bank vault's door, perfectly machined, absolutely fine in the way it seated down and opened to set the time and date. While the Triton's crown and guards look kinda like the OS300's:



In every other way it's miserable. Once unscrewed and popped out to set the time, the crown tilts around alarmingly. Once you set the time, trying to reseat it is horrible--half the time you think you've grabbed the threads on the crown tube, only to realize that you haven't, and you'd better start again, or you're possibly going to cross the threads. There have been several times I've tried to reseat the crown and, by the time I've got the sumbitch finger tight, my fingers actually hurt from the effort.

Also, some other problems: the bracelet, as I've already noted, is pretty goddamned miserable. It's not comfortable, it rattles--in that way it's much like the earlier M-Force models--and the clasp is bog-standard, as the Brits say:



The hour hand is too short, too. I just thought I'd throw that in.

On the bright side, it's a pretty watch, and wears much better than an OS300:







So, what's the verdict? The Triton isn't a terrible watch; on a rubber dive strap, it'd probably do fine underwater. The problem is that, over the years, I've looked at Orient as the watch world's version of Hyundai cars--not the fact that they're cheap, but that they're cheap, and do so many things well, and they're loaded with value. There are few bigger Orient fanboys than me, but this one's a swing and a miss--instead of coming out with a new Revolver, Orient came out with a slightly better M-Force. And Orient can do a whole lot better than that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,119 Posts
Hmm. I'm a little disappointed. Not with your review, I've loved those for years, but with your conclusions. The pics aren't showing up on my phone, probably on my end, so I will check back again later. In the meantime, I am deciding between this, a Mako USA and a Mini Turtle for my next watch. I guess there are still no easy answers. Thanks, as always, for your thoughts..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
760 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hmm. I'm a little disappointed. Not with your review, I've loved those for years, but with your conclusions. The pics aren't showing up on my phone, probably on my end, so I will check back again later. In the meantime, I am deciding between this, a Mako USA and a Mini Turtle for my next watch. I guess there are still no easy answers. Thanks, as always, for your thoughts..
Thanks for the kind words, Mr. frank. I haven't held a Mini Turtle yet (I owned a couple of the regular Turtles, and they're fine divers), and had a couple Makos over the years. This watch should have been, had Orient put the proper effort into it (like they did the Mako, the Revolver, or the excellent--but unwearable for me--OS300), the great mid-priced diver they've been groping for these many years. Comparing it to the Sumo, which is admittedly about $50 or so more, the Sumo wins, hands down.

This could have been a home run by Orient, and it turned into a single. A shame, really.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,119 Posts
I have to quote you here, continuing the baseball analogy:
"In short, Seiko knocked this one so far out of the park it's not even a joke. "
From a review that greatly influenced my purchase of an absolutely fantastic watch. I was hoping for something similar..
I hope you keep buying watches, especially Orients and Seikos, and keep up the impressions. I've mentioned it before, but your impressions have always been among my favorite reviews, and I remember them from back in the day, the beginning of this hobby for me. No broken teeth required.😉 Take care, Buddy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
760 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
By the way, what is your opinion on the lume vs. Turtle, etc?
Thanks again for the kind words, Mr. frank. The lume is very good, on par with the Turtle. Orient even lumed the power reserve hand. It easily passes the patented Conjurer quick-glance-in-a-dark-car test, and lasts well into the night.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,785 Posts
I've noticed several posts about loose crowns. FWIW, the crown on the Triton I got is quite solid. As a matter of fact, it takes a bit more than normal pressure to screw in.



Sent from my Google Pixel using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,641 Posts


The bracelet, which isn't extremely good and rattles like a vintage Rambler sedan, is held together with pins and collars, although at least the collars are fitted into the center link, and so sizing the watch isn't a total descent into hell. The caseback's nicely finished, too:

The crown is easily the worst I've used in a dive watch at practically any price; the OS300's crown operated like a German-made bank vault's door, perfectly machined, absolutely fine in the way it seated down and opened to set the time and date. While the Triton's crown and guards look kinda like the OS300's:

In every other way it's miserable. Once unscrewed and popped out to set the time, the crown tilts around alarmingly. Once you set the time, trying to reseat it is horrible--half the time you think you've grabbed the threads on the crown tube, only to realize that you haven't, and you'd better start again, or you're possibly going to cross the threads. There have been several times I've tried to reseat the crown and, by the time I've got the sumbitch finger tight, my fingers actually hurt from the effort.

Also, some other problems: the bracelet, as I've already noted, is pretty goddamned miserable. It's not comfortable, it rattles--in that way it's much like the earlier M-Force models--and the clasp is bog-standard, as the Brits say:
Enjoyed reading your review. Rattles like a vintage Rambler sedan is a classic. :)

The case size is listed by Orient at 43.4mm, I measured mine with a digital caliper 9-3 and get 43.28mm, you listed it at 42.6mm from 9-3 likely a typo.

Initially I didn't notice the crown issue upon first setting the time, but your review led me to take another look at it. You are spot on. When loosened the crown swivels as if it's connected to the stem with a ball and socket joint. No biggie here, however screwing it back in sometimes takes multiple tries until it catches and sets. I tried different ways of doing and didn't find any that would not be a miss, you can feel it skip or jump to engage at times.

I don't have a Sumo so can't comment on the comparison except to say that at least I haven't seen the chapter ring misalignment issue with the Triton thus far. Where I tend to disagree is about the bracelet, and I note when it comes to wearer comfort it becomes very much a user specific issue. I am aware there is a long list of complaints over time about Orient bracelets even though I am fairly new to Orients, having seen it on many reviews.

The bracelet does rattle a bit at times but hardly any at others. I would say this is within expectations at the current market price point in the $400's usd and much lower if you can find a sale. When looser it rattles some, when my wrist swells up it stops. I suppose it depends on how you have yours set. Mine came set to the clasp at the inner most hole, perhaps re-setting it to the outer most will mitigate the rattle, since this is where most of the rattling seems to be coming from. I haven't tried this yet.

I will say that sizing it the first time was "a total descent into hell" lol for me. I had not encountered those tiny pins before. Had to do a google search that naturally took me back to WUS on how to re-size. Though once you get the hang of it with the proper tool, the Bergeon spring removal tool works great since you can slide those little pins, tubes really or whatever they are called, into one end of the tool and easily slide it into place on the bracelet. Yes, I would prefer not to have these, they are easy to loose.

I do find the bracelet comfortable and head and shoulders better than my Orient Star which has very loose links.

The black dial looks great too, and not having the high expectations you had as an Orient fanboy, I am very pleased with it, and I can certainly understand your partial disappointment.

P.S., I will probably change to a strap soon enough since I tend to prefer that on a casual watch. It seems dressy divers are the in thing these days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
That's a nice review. Thanks for posting it.

I purchased the golden bezel version and have the white and black dial os300 to compare it to. The lume is not quite as good on the triton as the os300 but it is pretty good. It wears much better then the os300 being that's it's smaller and lighter. I have mine on a nato and am very happy.

I do not think the crown is that bad once you get used to it. The issue is that the return spring is quite strong so it requires a good bit of pressure to get the threads to mate. I use the typical turn it counter clockwise until you feel it click then screw it in. As long as you apply appropriate force the threads feel good and true.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,641 Posts
That's a nice review. Thanks for posting it.

I purchased the golden bezel version and have the white and black dial os300 to compare it to. The lume is not quite as good on the triton as the os300 but it is pretty good. It wears much better then the os300 being that's it's smaller and lighter. I have mine on a nato and am very happy.

I do not think the crown is that bad once you get used to it. The issue is that the return spring is quite strong so it requires a good bit of pressure to get the threads to mate. I use the typical turn it counter clockwise until you feel it click then screw it in. As long as you apply appropriate force the threads feel good and true.
Thanks, tried this technique, slowly, makes it much easier to manipulate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
308 Posts
I hadn't noticed the wobbly stem until this review. When I purposely look for it, I can find it. If I deal with the stem in my normal fashion, I don't have a problem with it. But it would be nice if it was more solid and without that bit of wobble. When I pull the crown out and do what I do, I don't notice the issue at all. If I move the crown off center intentionally, I can induce that wobble. To me, it's a non-issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
I love wearing it on a black Bonetto Cinturini rubber strap.
However, as you noted, the crown is not great. I sent mine back. Orient will replace it and maybe I'll get a "good" one.
It's too bad because the quality of the watch is otherwise excellent.
The hour hand is fine. I think it is in correct proportion to the dial.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
I'm reading lots of little nitpicky complaints about the crown, the band, etc... but so far nobody has keyed in on the most important subject -- accuracy.

I bought a Blue Triton during the 50% off sale. I'm very happy with the watch. I haven't had the tilty-crown problem that the OP referred to. In fact my Triton has been so accurate that during the first 1400 hours of the break-in cycle I've never had reason to unscrew the crown since I originally set the time when I first received it. I wear the watch enough to keep it on 40 hours of power reserve and the accuracy has never strayed enough to warrant unscrewing the crown to make an adjustment.

Over the course of the first 1400 hours the watch has displayed some extremely reproducible positional variation in timekeeping, to the point that I can adjust for any drift by just choosing the position that I use to set the watch down on the table at night. My watch's timekeeping error extrapolates to -4 spd while on the wrist and +8 spd when dial up. Spending 16 hours on the wrist and 8 hours on the nightstand, the two positional errors effectively cancel each other out. If I break the routine and need to slow the watch down a bit, I'll leave it 9-down overnight if it's really fast. I'll leave it 3-down if it's on-time. And I'll give it some extra face-up time if I need to gain a few seconds.

Using this approach, I've seen the watch drift no farther than -5 and +6 seconds over it's first 1400 hours of operation, which I think is a pretty phenomenal result. Right now I'm at -3 seconds over 58 days, which comes out to an average error rate of 0.05 spd. Amazing, if you ask me. I'm totally happy with mine.

After reading this thread I decided to unscrew the crown just to see if I have the wobble problem or the rethreading problem. I don't have a wobble, and I don't think rethreading is an issue. with no wobble (yet?), there's no risk of cross-threading. the only downside that I can see is that it takes a good inward push to catch the threads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
308 Posts
Personally, I prefer to just wear a watch and have it accurate without special positioning (since I don't take mine off at night when sleeping). That being said, I do swap my automatics out and either put them on the winder 12 up or 12 down, depending if it needs a minor correction one way or the other. My automatics tend to gain time 12 up and lose time 12 down. But I haven't had to physically adjust mine since July 1 when I had to adjust the date and both my Orient automatics are within 10 sec of reference. I use WatchCheck to keep daily records of my automatics.

I anticipate making my next reference adjustment October 1 just to start a new recording period since I've been refining my process over the last couple of months.

If I just wear my Triton and make no special attempts to manipulate the accuracy, I think it will gain about 5 spd which is not bad, but is bad enough I would otherwise tweak the adjuster were I not compensating with positional tweaks when I'm not wearing it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,641 Posts
I like to get to the bottom of this wobble issue, do all of them have it? I looked at some other watches I have and have noticed a less pronounced wobble on some, so I'm inclined to consider it a non issue.

The crown can be made to move, wobble, ONLY when force is applied by hand, and the stem doesn't move. The screw down issue boils down to having a very strong spring. I can't figure out the reason behind that. Any advantages to this?

Product
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Personally, I prefer to just wear a watch and have it accurate without special positioning (since I don't take mine off at night when sleeping). That being said, I do swap my automatics out and either put them on the winder 12 up or 12 down, depending if it needs a minor correction one way or the other. My automatics tend to gain time 12 up and lose time 12 down. But I haven't had to physically adjust mine since July 1 when I had to adjust the date and both my Orient automatics are within 10 sec of reference. I use WatchCheck to keep daily records of my automatics.

I anticipate making my next reference adjustment October 1 just to start a new recording period since I've been refining my process over the last couple of months.
I'm not normally as much of a nerd as I have been lately, when it comes to keeping track of watch accuracy. Truth be told, I prefer not to wear a watch just because I don't like to wear jewelry. No watches, no rings, no neck chains or bracelets, etc. So it's easy for me to take the watch off at night without feeling "naked." But I do appreciate a mechanical watch enough to wear a mechanical watch, where I wouldn't even bother to wear any other type of watch. To me a mechanical watch is something that I own just because I have no real need for it. (If that idea even makes sense to anyone else, I'll be surprised. :roll: )

I've been paying close attention to the Triton during the break-in period, a crazy amount of attention during the first 1000 hours, more as a learning experience than anything else. Eventually I got to the point where I'd just wear the watch without checking it for a week or two, taking it off and tossing it into a random position just to see how the watch fared after a few weeks of inattention. Overall the accuracy was very, very good. In the worst case scenario experiment I was able to intentionally induce a drift by stowing it in the worst possible position (9-down) for extended periods of days. The long and short of it is that having figured out all of the positional effects, I don't really have to worry about how I set down the Triton when I take it off. I just set it face-up when I take it off and I don't worry about it now. If I just compare it to atomic once every couple of weeks, then I'll know if any seconds of drift have occurred, and from my testing I know how to set it down for the next few days to nudge it back to being on-time to the second. Doing this I don't think I'll ever see any accumulated minutes of error, so I'll never have to unscrew the crown again. The "wobble" issue will likely never be an issue for me.

These experiments left me very impressed with the quality of my first Orient watch. It also gives me serious reservation about the need for anyone to invest in a premier-grade chronometer that is adjusted in 5 positions. By taking advantage of positional anachronism in my Triton, I've been able to exceed the accuracy of Certified Swiss Chronometers. No need to spend 5-figures on a premier-grade watch if you know how to set your Orient down when you take it off at night. :-!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Re: Better is the Enemy of Good

If I just wear my Triton and make no special attempts to manipulate the accuracy, I think it will gain about 5 spd which is not bad, but is bad enough I would otherwise tweak the adjuster were I not compensating with positional tweaks when I'm not wearing it.
You must be much better that this than I am, when you speak of adjusting your Triton rather than regulating it. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you've said.

My life's mission is to never have to go inside of my mechanical watches to regulate them. I prefer the idea of selecting a watch that has a small error rate and compensating for it by selecting the off-wrist storage positions, rather than having the watch regulated by non-factory personnel.

Some watches are designed to be easy to regulate with precision (like a Glasshutte Original with the swan neck regulator, which has a regulator that is bounded on both sides and adjusted via a fine-tuning adjustment screw) while others are not at all easy to regulate (like a Seiko 7S26 or the Orients and most of the less expensive Swiss watches, which all lack a fine-adjustment mechanism on the regulator.)

I've read story after story about people trying to regulate their watches that have small errors of only a few seconds daily, which would have been better left un-molested. Instead, they decide to perform the smallest possible nudge to the regulator to make things better...

... and what invariably seems to happen is that they induce a change that causes the new error rate to be several minutes per day instead of several seconds per day. Ouch. Those stories tell of people making one after another unsuccessful attempt to "improve" the watch's accuracy, where they end up chasing their tail by bouncing back between regulations that are either too fast or too slow. The story always ends with them selling-off the watch and buying another. This is particularly common in people who try to dabble in self-regulating their Seiko 7S26. The 7S26 seems to be the poster child for failed efforts at DIY regulation.

I don't mind having a watch that has a cumulative error rate on the order of 8 seconds per day, or a minute per week. Around here I see a lot of people complaining about that, and talking about self-regulating their own watches. Paying attention to stowage position, and using the watch's own positional anachronism to fine tune it's behavior, can solve the problem without opening the watch. That seems to be a much safer approach to me.
 
1 - 20 of 47 Posts
Top