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Hello!

In my watch collection is just arrived a nice Ingersoll model "texas" that works very fine. It is a mechanic 35 jewels with some complication. I have found some specifics on internet because i'm still curios on it's movement. I have read that Ingersoll is using oriental movements in their watches but i havent found a number or so to qualificate the movement. Someone knows more about this?

Regards!
 

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Hello Pasgal_X,

I couldn't find a jpg picture of the "texas" but I did find the online catalog which had it. Some of these watches look pretty good to me.

https://www.ingersoll-watches.co.uk/ingersoll_watch_catalogue.pdf

Yes, these watches have Chinese movements. I did see a Seagull ST19 and what looks like a Shanghai B but I'm not for sure. Please post some good, close-up pictures of the watch and movement and the experts will have a better chance of telling you what you have.

This looks to be a typical "internet" brand. Search the forum for mushroom and you'll find more information. Not a bad thing, but it is better to be informed and know what you are getting. I find it interesting that the website talks about the history of the brand but it ends in 1919.

Ingersoll was a real pocket watch company in the late 1800's & early 1900's but was bought out in 1922 and again in 1944. The current European company bought the rights to use the name.

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=35017

Cheers,
gigfy
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Hello gigfy,

Thank you for the answer. I'll try to post some pics of my watch. It has the transparent back with movement in view. It appears, however, very oriental, as compared with other movements that come from China.
Yes, the company "Ingersoll" seems to be not the original one (famous for the "Mickey Mouse Watch" if you remember http://75yearsfortheinegersollmickey.blogspot.com/). The new company is probably German and build watches with oriental movements and complications with very reliable prices.
The watch was a gift, so im collecting info because im curious about the "affidability" of this watch that appears constructed well.

Have my best Regards!!!!!
 

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This looks to be a typical "internet" brand. Search the forum for mushroom and you'll find more information. Not a bad thing, but it is better to be informed and know what you are getting. I find it interesting that the website talks about the history of the brand but it ends in 1919.

Ingersoll was a real pocket watch company in the late 1800's & early 1900's but was bought out in 1922 and again in 1944. The current European company bought the rights to use the name.
In Germany and in Holland Ingersoll watches are to be found in many(?) jewellers or watch shops.
 

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Hello!

In my watch collection is just arrived a nice Ingersoll model "texas" that works very fine. It is a mechanic 35 jewels with some complication. I have found some specifics on internet because i'm still curios on it's movement. I have read that Ingersoll is using oriental movements in their watches but i havent found a number or so to qualificate the movement. Someone knows more about this?

Regards!
Tejas uses a 612 calibre Automatic movement with 22 Jewels featuring date, day, month and 24 hours. All Ingersoll watches are designed in Germany

 

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If this is correct watch: IN3223 -
Tejas uses a 612 calibre Automatic movement with 22 Jewels featuring date, day, month and 24 hours. All Ingersoll watches are designed in Germany



 

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The original poster on this thread (five and a half years ago) was refering to a model called "Texas" not "Tejas". Does Ingersoll still produce such a model?

Amazon has the Texas listed as 'currently unavailable':


35 jewels was mentioned (not 22) so it is fair to presume that a Shanghai movement was used.

The Ingersoll brand is currently under German ownership, and they do seem to have designs that are specific to their brand (and therefore designed in Germany) but the movements (and probably all other components and assembly) are Chinese.
 
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Not to veer us too far off topic, but here's a modern thread on Ingersoll, sooooo... let's run with it.

The design language of Ingersoll really speaks to me.

The Ingersoll Astor IN3103WH (total grail for me, haters gonna hate) is beautiful. I love the Pennsylvania IN4403, great execution on a Seagull Movement. Then there's the Zuni IN3605, which is not unique to Ingersoll (Calvaneo has one, ergo OEM design), but still it's nice all the same.

I also like the Hudson IN3604 and the IN8008 Remington (love that ST25).

There are a handful more, but those are the winners.

Shame about the prices, though. They're unexpectedly high for a watch of Chinese origins. Maybe if I get filthy I-don't-care rich, one day, I'll break from common sense and splurge... Or maybe the fit and finish is truly worth it? $200-400 is a lot to gamble on a lark.
 

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I have to agree with Thrax,

A number of Ingersolls appeal to me too, and I also think they're a bit price for a Germasian brand. On the other hand, perhaps we're getting spoiled by the prices we are/were able to get for nice watches. I think a $80 Parnis is expensive, because I bought most of mine for about $20, and the same goes for ST5's. I was used to the $10-$20 pricetag, and now I think $45 is too much...:think:

The have some interesting models:









and of course:
Analog watch Watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Jewellery
 

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It's interesting that the first Ingersoll you listed is a carbon copy of the Shanghai moonphase. Does SWAF do OEM work for Ingersoll? Is there another OEM that provided that design to both of them?

That Sapphire Collection and Orbiting Balance Wheel are quite nice. I haven't seen those before.

 

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It's interesting that the first Ingersoll you listed is a carbon copy of the Shanghai moonphase. Does SWAF do OEM work for Ingersoll? Is there another OEM that provided that design to both of them?
Sometimes I wonder if Shanghai really makes watches, or just movement and has some third party build watches from them...The Ingersoll is quite an old model, I've seen that one long before I saw the Shanghai version. Which of course does not mean the shanghai did not exist back then.
 

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You make an interesting point, Martin. If you browse through the SWAF Tmall, I would say I've seen the vast majority of their cases and dials on other watches long before I saw them on a SWAF. I used to browse Taobao endlessly to see all the fly-by-night brands that popped up, like: BiaoQi, Ailang, Heizixing and more. Each one of these companies all had the same designs that Shanghai has on their official site and Tmall.

Going broader to look at other brands in China, both BiaoQi and SWAF have relabeled the SeaGull M171S and M172S. It's exactly the same watch, but with a sterile rotor and a new brand on the dial.

The whole CMW industry appears to be very incestuous. Just now I found yet another random Chinese brand with a new name stamped on the full SeaGull kit.

 

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And further to this point, here's the Ingersoll orbital balance... except with SWAF branding:

http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.81.KNzejG&id=20086342512

Different dial, but same movement. Who makes this movement? Is it SWAF?

Again I wonder if Shanghai is doing OEM work for Ingersoll. And if that's the case, does that in a way legitimize Ingersoll beyond its reputation as a Germasian? Yes, it's still Germasian... but one backed by a reputable movement maker and assembler. Does that ensure a certain higher level of quality than we've been lead to believe?
 

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Thinking about this further, I think I know what's going on, because it's exactly what's going on in my own industry. I work in the semiconductor industry for a company that manufactures its own chips for inclusion in other products.

A small number of the chips we manufacture are also built out to fully working products with our own branding, which is how we satisfy initial demand for the category of products that we make. Whereas we make the chips, we do not do manufacturing or assembly on the other ingredients necessary to make that fully-working product. A third-party company integrates the chip into a final product of our exacting specification, including: colors, shape, branding, circuitry, etc. We provide the schematics to an OEM with some chips, and they create the remaining constituent parts with their network of suppliers and to assemble a working product.

The next batch of chips we manufacture after that initial run also go to that OEM, except this time they don't put our branding on it. We sell our assembled design, unbranded, to a variety of partners that apply their own branding and tweak the parameters for final sale to the consumer at a markup over the cost we sold to them.

The next batch of chips after the partner phase don't even get assembled by that OEM, necessarily. We just sell the chips to our partners, and they integrate them with unique product designs that--except for the chip--could vary wildly from the design we initially made under OEM contract when the product was introduced. We have a share in the revenue. Hell, those partners of ours could even go back to that same OEM if they choose to, but there are many like that OEM.

Does anyone see where I'm going with this?

I think PTS Resources is that OEM for the watch industry. I think they offer an absolutely enormous number of case, dial and strap designs that even the Big Three draw on to satisfy their desire to have a comprehensive and interesting product line. I think companies like Shanghai, SeaGull and, to a lesser extent, Beijing all occasionally buy/license case/dial designs from PTS Resources, or use PTS' manufacturing/design capacity to augment their in-house manufacturing volumes.

And whereas my industry's chips cannot be used in a product from anyone else but us and our network of partners, I think Seagull/SWAF/BJWAF all sell their movements to PTS Resources in bulk so PTS can re-sell those movements to other parties like Ingersoll. Companies like Ingersoll can rely on PTS Resources' design/manufacturing capacity in the same way Shanghai can once that transaction is completed.

This is the only hypothesis I have that would explain why a Tier 1 movement maker would have the same designs as Chinese brandholders or western brandholders, or why those brandholders would have movements from any one of the Tier 1 movement makers out of China. PTS Resources is at the center of it all.

//EDIT: And I think SeaGull is so large that it performs the same function as PTS Resources, except they naturally utilize SeaGull movements alone. This would explain why the M172S design can be had from a large number of brandholders. For example: Langengrad, Maurice Blum and AWC all utilize SeaGull as an OEM. Many designs for these companies have all been found with a SeaGull brand stamp on them at one time or another.
 

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It's interesting that the first Ingersoll you listed is a carbon copy of the Shanghai moonphase. Does SWAF do OEM work for Ingersoll? Is there another OEM that provided that design to both of them?
I've seen Shanghai-branded triple-calendars very similar to this years before the Ingersoll brand relaunched. The movement is by Shanghai.

It's interesting to note that the Ingersoll-branded version lacks their customary "German Design" inscription. So perhaps that inscription has some meaning i.e. it is a way of distinguishing the proprietory designs from the off-the-shelf OEM.
 

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And further to this point, here's the Ingersoll orbital balance... except with SWAF branding:

http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.81.KNzejG&id=20086342512

Different dial, but same movement.
They don't seem to be working their "German designer" very hard. ;-)

Who makes this movement? Is it SWAF?
I'm pretty sure that it is.

The back view of the movement is very interesting. Dual mainspring. And it's a 1-hour Karrusel which (as Bonniksen proved more than a century ago) has a more useful corrective effect on a watch's timekeeping than a 1-minute tourbillon.

Again I wonder if Shanghai is doing OEM work for Ingersoll. And if that's the case, does that in a way legitimize Ingersoll beyond its reputation as a Germasian? Yes, it's still Germasian... but one backed by a reputable movement maker and assembler. Does that ensure a certain higher level of quality than we've been lead to believe?
Has the quality of Ingersoll ever been in doubt? I thought the general concern was purely with the price.
 

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I have to agree with Thrax,

A number of Ingersolls appeal to me too, and I also think they're a bit price for a Germasian brand. On the other hand, perhaps we're getting spoiled by the prices we are/were able to get for nice watches. I think a $80 Parnis is expensive, because I bought most of mine for about $20, and the same goes for ST5's. I was used to the $10-$20 pricetag, and now I think $45 is too much...:think:

The have some interesting models:

View attachment 1449661

View attachment 1449626
It's a shame that I'd need to sell a car or remortgage my house to own one of these :-(
 

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Has the quality of Ingersoll ever been in doubt? I thought the general concern was purely with the price.
Not at all. I actually think they've been decently regarded. I would just be even more confident, perhaps even to the point of purchasing, if a major firm were the OEM.
 
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