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There are many popular, affordable, automatic watch movements that continue to run even when the crown is pulled out to the hand setting position. These are called non hacking movements. When an automatic or manual wind mechanical watch has a feature that stops the second hand when the crown is pulled out to the hand setting position, it is said to be a hacking movement. Hacking allows for precise time setting and synchronization. There are some movements such as the Seiko 7s26, for example, that while they are considered non hacking can be stopped by applying counter clockwise pressure on the crown while in the hand setting position. It is for this technique I would like to introduce the term backhand hacking for adaption and ratification by the WUS community. The pitch is that this simple term would become understood and used in mechanical watch reviews. For example my Made in India HMT Pilot is non hacking but can be backhand hacked. My vintage Timex with Model 24 movement is non hacking and also non backhand hacking. Having a simple term to describe this feature would benefit WUS members and perhaps the general public as well should the term go viral. This fact would be interesting to know about vintage movements by collectors, and may even help determine counterfeit movements from originals in some cases. I would love to see the term backhand hacking included in reviews and descriptions of all non hacking mechanical movements. Perhaps it will also inspire collectors to wind up some vintage watches out of a new curiosity and interest and report on their backhand hacking capability. That is the basic concept- now can go back to sleep.
 
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I like it. If the occasion arises, I won't hesitate to use the term.


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You're years late. It's been called back hacking for as long as I can remember.
No need for a watchmaker's input. There are countless threads spanning at least a decade on this very topic.
 

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You're years late. It's been called back hacking for as long as I can remember.
No need for a watchmaker's input. There are countless threads spanning at least a decade on this very topic.
Yep - back-hacking has been a thing for as long as I've been here.
 

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Well that didn't last very long, haha


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There are many popular, affordable, automatic watch movements that continue to run even when the crown is pulled out to the hand setting position. These are called non hacking movements. When an automatic or manual wind mechanical watch has a feature that stops the second hand when the crown is pulled out to the hand setting position, it is said to be a hacking movement. Hacking allows for precise time setting and synchronization. There are some movements such as the Seiko 7s26, for example, that while they are considered non hacking can be stopped by applying counter clockwise pressure on the crown while in the hand setting position. It is for this technique I would like to introduce the term backhand hacking for adaption and ratification by the WUS community. The pitch is that this simple term would become understood and used in mechanical watch reviews. For example my Made in India HMT Pilot is non hacking but can be backhand hacked. My vintage Timex with Model 24 movement is non hacking and also non backhand hacking. Having a simple term to describe this feature would benefit WUS members and perhaps the general public as well should the term go viral. This fact would be interesting to know about vintage movements by collectors, and may even help determine counterfeit movements from originals in some cases. I would love to see the term backhand hacking included in reviews and descriptions of all non hacking mechanical movements. Perhaps it will also inspire collectors to wind up some vintage watches out of a new curiosity and interest and report on their backhand hacking capability. That is the basic concept- now can go back to sleep.
My Seiko skx013 back hacks


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So does mine, not sure if it backhand hacks though. Is it the opposite of a forehand hack? 'Backhand hack' sounds like a newspaper guy on the take.
Maybe call it a "true backhand hacking" (putting that in bold, as if it will help with the SEO) to distinguish it from the false kind :)
 

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Yep - back-hacking has been a thing for as long as I've been here.
^^ This.

While back-hacking is fine from a technical point of view, calling it a movement feature is problematic in my opinion. Back-hacking works by adding a counter-acting torque to the gear train. When the main spring is barely wound, the movement will back-hack. When the main spring is fully wound, the same movement will happily tick on anyway, disregarding what you do with the crown.

Depending on the main spring torque and in what shape the individual movement's lubrication is, every non-hacking mechanical movement can or can't be stopped with back-hacking under these or those circumstances. So it's not a feature distinguishing one type from the other.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So does mine, not sure if it backhand hacks though. Is it the opposite of a forehand hack? 'Backhand hack' sounds like a newspaper guy on the take.
or a cabbie, maybe even Uber or lyft driver
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
^^ This.

While back-hacking is fine from a technical point of view, calling it a movement feature is problematic in my opinion. Back-hacking works by adding a counter-acting torque to the gear train. When the main spring is barely wound, the movement will back-hack. When the main spring is fully wound, the same movement will happily tick on anyway, disregarding what you do with the crown.

Depending on the main spring torque and in what shape the individual movement's lubrication is, every non-hacking mechanical movement can or can't be stopped with back-hacking under these or those circumstances. So it's not a feature distinguishing one type from the other.
That theory and explanation makes sense makes so I tested my HMT hand wind pilot by winding it fully - still backhand hacking functions as before regardless of full spring tension. Also note, this watch had been recently serviced so there is no gunk in it.
 

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Way to kill the party guys. we were about to make WUS history with a new term.
Don't worry, I can liven up the party. Last night, I tried to reply to this thread but instead replied to a thread from 2007 about backwards winding. And my reply was that I don't know if it's good or bad.
 

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There are many popular, affordable, automatic watch movements that continue to run even when the crown is pulled out to the hand setting position. These are called non hacking movements. When an automatic or manual wind mechanical watch has a feature that stops the second hand when the crown is pulled out to the hand setting position, it is said to be a hacking movement. Hacking allows for precise time setting and synchronization. There are some movements such as the Seiko 7s26, for example, that while they are considered non hacking can be stopped by applying counter clockwise pressure on the crown while in the hand setting position. It is for this technique I would like to introduce the term backhand hacking for adaption and ratification by the WUS community. The pitch is that this simple term would become understood and used in mechanical watch reviews. For example my Made in India HMT Pilot is non hacking but can be backhand hacked. My vintage Timex with Model 24 movement is non hacking and also non backhand hacking. Having a simple term to describe this feature would benefit WUS members and perhaps the general public as well should the term go viral. This fact would be interesting to know about vintage movements by collectors, and may even help determine counterfeit movements from originals in some cases. I would love to see the term backhand hacking included in reviews and descriptions of all non hacking mechanical movements. Perhaps it will also inspire collectors to wind up some vintage watches out of a new curiosity and interest and report on their backhand hacking capability. That is the basic concept- now can go back to sleep.
If a movement doesn't have a stop works mechanism and can be made to stall the progression of the seconds hand with all but the most minimal gang reserve by the application of retrogressive pressure to the crown in the time set position:

In the case of a direct drive centerwheel the cannon pinion has excessive friction due to over tensioning, improper lubrication or damage.

In the case of an indirect drive cannon pinion the drive wheel has excessive friction due to over tensioning, improper lubrication or damage.

In either of the two above cases the watch is defective.
 
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