Here's what I think:

Sounds like they might have achieved three things:
1. Made a bit of cash,
2. reminded people of their existence,
3. gathered some feedback to conclude the batch size for an upcoming blue dial model?

-> https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/what-is-monta-doing.5600198/

 

Here's what I think:



-> https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/what-is-monta-doing.5600198/

I think point 1 and point 2 is pretty valid, but any new release can achieve both these points. One possible reason they're not releasing a new regular new model is that the brand is in a slump and they're not sure a new model will sell anymore, and they might even lose money with the manufacturing costs. Just look at the limited edition gilt skyquest, only sold out like weeks ago and it was nearly 2 YEARS from launch!

It all smells like a desperate move to get cash now to keep the ship afloat. Particularly with breaking "limited edition" promises and releasing 50 more pieces of the turquoise noble.

 

The "we just found 50 more Tiffany blue dials behind the back of the couch!" thing was yet another odd move from them. Supposedly the story was that they were originally going to make 150, were told by their dial supplier they could only produce 100, made the release 100, and then the supplier just happened to be able to produce the originally asked for 150 after all, so they've just been sitting on those extra 50 dials this entire time.

And now, because of "overwhelming demand" they're using up those remainders. I don't remember what the original marketing was around the 100 models, but I'd it bet it was probably something like "these are the only 100 ever," and I doubt there was a "wink" in there.

The overwhelming demand incidentally was like 25 or 30 people who subscribe to their newsletter, and used the pre-purchase link. You can still get them as of now, so this was definitely not a "gone in 60 seconds" release.

According to their IG chat, they're going to do something like this, but with a blue dial sometime this year. Gee, where have I seen this movie before?

 

The "we just found 50 more Tiffany blue dials behind the back of the couch!" thing was yet another odd move from them. Supposedly the story was that they were originally going to make 150, were told by their dial supplier they could only produce 100, made the release 100, and then the supplier just happened to be able to produce the originally asked for 150 after all, so they've just been sitting on those extra 50 dials this entire time.

And now, because of "overwhelming demand" they're using up those remainders. I don't remember what the original marketing was around the 100 models, but I'd it bet it was probably something like "these are the only 100 ever," and I doubt there was a "wink" in there.

The overwhelming demand incidentally was like 25 or 30 people who subscribe to their newsletter, and used the pre-purchase link. You can still get them as of now, so this was definitely not a "gone in 60 seconds" release.

According to their IG chat, they're going to do something like this, but with a blue dial sometime this year. Gee, where have I seen this movie before?

Yeah that was pretty sus. If the manufacturer was only able to produce 100 dials, then Monta's only gonna pay for 100 right. Who's gonna tell the manufacturer to continue production for another 50 dials AFTER the run is over just to put them in a store room so they could re-release it 3 years later?

I wonder if the brand has gone downhill since they moved away from the Monta-ness with the latest oceanking / skyquest not being well received, which is now leading to cashflow problems they desperately have to address right now.

I really hope they stay afloat though, they're still king in terms of fit and finish and bracelet comfort in this segment.

 

I don’t own one but I hope not! You can see they’re better made than most micro brands albeit higher prices.

 

Hard to say without seeing their financial statements.

I will say as a casual observer that I find Monta, a micro founded in 2016 with nice albeit 'safe' designs, asking Longines prices, a tough proposition. Not saying the watches aren't worth it.

 

This exactly.

At the price point Monta is playing in, I need some assurance that the company is going to be around for at least as long as my warranty period.

 

After I saw the other WUS thread, I emailed to see if I could send my new Oceanking in to get a blue bezel put on but was told definitively no. I was very clear I would be happy to pay but apparently they didn’t want that cash.

They mentioned they’re coming out with an all-blue Oceanking this summer. I don’t really understand their current strategy other than being conservative well beyond what other micros are in release schedule, color variations, unique design, etc. They still make a good product but they’re not nearly at the level of watch nerd consciousness that they used to be. I wish they’d take some risks instead of playing it so safe. I recognize that’s easy for me to say since it’s not my money but they’re going to fade into irrelevance if they just keep releasing vanilla models.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. It seems that Monta has lost its identity and advantage in this segment.
It used to be a brand with beautiful designs (though on the safe side) with a somewhat recognizable design language, with its real advantage as having the best finishing and bracelet comfort in this segment.

But the latest oceanking and skyquest flopped really hard. I remember there was a lot of criticism on the skyquest swapping its ceramic bezel for an aluminum one, and many reviewers saying that although the fit and finish is nice for the ocean-king, the Monta-ness is gone and it's a lot more Rolex looking. I think that fact that the limited edition skyquest took almost 2 years to sell out is pretty telling of the sales number. I wonder the lack of a new oceanking color is due to sales being so bad they aren't sure even a different color is going to sell or just lose money.

Looking at Monta's competitors:

• Formex is using exclusively COSC movements for the essence and reef, bracelet comfort and micro-adjust is greatly improved, their designs are much more unique, and so many different colors / textures for their dials
• Farer has a huge catalogue now, and they're always been the color/design king of micro brands
• CW has been eating up a big chunk of this segment, I wonder how much noble sales were taken away by the twelve, and surely a lot of skyquest / oceanking sales gone to CW lumieres and trident GMTs.

Meanwhile:

• Monta used to promise +/-5 sec accuracy, now it's just a base SW300 with no promise of further regulation (as far as I'm aware)
• the noble and the atlas are timeless designs, but the skyquest / oceanking have kinda weird proportions and more Rolex looking than ever (it's definitely not a good sign when reviewers miss the old gen)
• in many cases they're more expensive than formex/farer/CW, which I will say is their closest competitiors

If things don't change I don't think the brand will survive for very long.

 

Out of business in 2 years, max. Line is dead. Newer designs not as good as previous designs.

 

A lot of watch companies are being squeezed, if not going out of business. Monta is hardly an exception but it's already in a tough position, being in the middle. Other companies have tried to go upscale but I am not certain that Monta has the financial ability to retool and go upward.

That said, I am assuming that if Monta goes out of business, that its watches are capable of being maintained by a competent watchmaker?

 

A lot of watch companies are being squeezed, if not going out of business. Monta is hardly an exception but it's already in a tough position, being in the middle. Other companies have tried to go upscale but I am not certain that Monta has the financial ability to retool and go upward.

That said, I am assuming that if Monta goes out of business, that its watches are capable of being maintained by a competent watchmaker?

So long as you don't need Monta-specific parts like crowns, hands, bezel parts, and possibly seals. And you have a watchmaker who's willing to work on a watch despite not being able to get those parts.

 

Interesting. Hard to predict either way, IMHO.

 

Its business. Regardless of the product, smaller companies have less resources to absorb things like market downturns, a flop rollout, etc.

 

Only been interested in the divers or gmt.
Every time I’ve considered one I always asked my self why I should spend so much on a boring looking Rolex clone.

There are a lot of interesting, well made watches out there in that price range and I’ve bought them instead.

I also think the whole stainless steel Sub/Tudor BB thing is starting to look old to a lot of people.

 

I wouldn't call them 'Rolex clone'. But they are certainly safe, somewhat generic designs. Not bad at all, mind you--they are attractive.

Like it or not, but there's very much a double standard in the industry. Tissot, Longines or Seiko have earned their stripes and can make 'generic' watches at higher prices. Hell, people would eat up that Monta Oceanking or Noble at £1500 / £2000 if it had Longines on the dial.

But a 2016 microbrand trying this? Nah, you need to do a bit more if you want your company to last. Either stand out with unique designs and top marketing, and/or become a proper watchmaker that manufactures movements / components in-house.

My unwanted armchair analysis is that they will go bust if they don't improve in these areas.

 

If I remember right, they initially tried releasing watches at twice what they settled at, essentially Tudor price levels... and quickly revised pricing downward to more realistic levels. If their business was based on projections at initial pricing, it may be that they just are realizing the margins they need to stay in business, and maybe new releases show that they are trying to cut corners as a result.

Who knows. Personally, the only real watch of intererst for me has been the Triumph, which it seems like they are phasing out. Atlas has that strange, crooked GMT hand and is a caller GMT. Noble hand design kills it for me, also the GMT version of that. The new models with bezels seem very lower-tier microbrand or even San Martin.

With other microbrands successfully marketing lower-priced Chinese-made options, and even some offering competitive Swiss Made options, of similar quality, or at least looks and specs, they are operating in a very crowded market. I don't know that Swiss Made has the cachet it used to command.

For what they are asking, plenty of other options I'd consider. Why bother with a Triumph or Noble, when I could pick up a Sinn 556 or Longines Conquest? I don't think it helps that they try to market them with their own caliber designations. A 2892 or SW300 would be appealing but I don't know WTF a M-22 caliber is, or how it compares to others.

At one show, I tried on both a Triumph and a Hamilton KFA on bracelet. I could tell the Monta was a more quality product, but not sure the price delta was worth it.

They seem to have fallen into a neither/nor limbo, which doesn't speak to me regarding longevity of the brand.

 

If I remember right, they initially tried releasing watches at twice what they settled at, essentially Tudor price levels... and quickly revised pricing downward to more realistic levels. If their business was based on projections at initial pricing, it may be that they just are realizing the margins they need to stay in business, and maybe new releases show that they are trying to cut corners as a result.

The big price drop early on (OK1 release) was supposedly due to a change in sales model. The brand had intended to sell through ADs (traditional sales model) and they priced to include AD's cut. For whatever reason, they pivoted to direct to consumer and they adjusted pricing downward accordingly.

 

I hope they're not going out. Monta makes really good watches. I had the grey dial version of the Triumph. The quality was on par with a lot of watches above their price point. I've actually been thinking of getting an Ocean King. Now reading here that they are releasing a blue version this Summer, I will wait to see what shade blue they go with.

 

No name Micros are going to be eaten by the Chinese watch industry.
Tried a San Martin SN0144 that costs like 300$/€, from a friend and was thoroughly impressed. With microadjustment, thinness and decent quality.

 

I don’t think Monta, which sells watches above $2000 is competing against San Martin at the $250 price point.

 

I bought a blue Oceanking version 2 for $2140 in early 2022 and I like it. I've always considered it overpriced. The second version is a compromise; flat crystal, plain steel case back, basic movement, mediocre warranty, etc. I'm okay with these things and the small details of the watch, polished elements, nice dial, cool ceramic bezel insert (and I don't even like ceramic), beautiful shades of blue, good bracelet, and very good clasp.

Due to not preferring the ceramic bezel insert, I asked for them to swap a steel insert. At first, they seemed amiable, but then said it couldn't be done. First, it was something about being against creating a version that never existed, then that the bezel insert can't be replaced on its own anyway, and then that the midcase and bezel are essentially a single unit. Due to this, any spare midcase with steel insert were reserved as repair parts for the watches so originally equipped. At no cost could my request be accomplished. That's their prerogative.

A year and a half into ownership, I broke a screw in one end of the clasp and they provided a complete clasp, free of charge.

They provided an extra bracelet link a short time later, which brought my full complement to what they ship currently with their new watches, free of charge.

Almost two and a half years after purchase, the lume fell out of the 4 minute position on the bezel insert. I had to pay shipping to them and they repaired it and shipped it back to me free of charge. Oddly, it was out of warranty, technically, and I found it strange they would eat the cost of a midcase, bezel, and bezel insert. Maybe they did, which I would appreciate greatly. I didn't press them for details.

I bought the Oceanking to see about the hype and I'm glad I did, but I have no desire to buy another at the price. The newest watches are okay, but don't inspire me to want one. Maybe if they were priced closer to the $1000 point, I'd look at them closer. I don't know what's in their future.

 

Monta watches are for people who value American Heritage.

They are for people who want both American heritage and Swiss quality, and that's what they deliver.

 

Monta watches are for people who value American Heritage.

They are for people who want both American heritage and Swiss quality, and that's what they deliver.

Is American 'heritage' really a selling point? I don't see it anywhere on their website (in fact, I don't see any 'about' section).

Doc Vail from NTH (paraphrasing) confirmed that, at least in his <$1000 segment, nobody really gives a damn about American heritage. Which I think is very true for micros if they're not doing anything with it. By that I mean heavy marketing or actually do something with it like Vaer and the Ameriquartz. Being a 2016 brand founded in the USA alone isn't gonna do much. If anything, having to pay for USA employees and office(s) (expen$ive) probably doesn't help with the price tag.

Monta going Swiss Made is at least one way I think micros can overcome the trap of being eventually eaten by direct from China brands, or just heritage brands. And they are really pushing the Swiss Made part. With their current price tags, mid marketing, and safe designs I personally don't think it's quite enough, but happy to be proven wrong.

 

I'm very confused by your train of logic on the second point. The most expensive San Martins are around $300, and most more like $200 or less. I'm not following why being the best under $500 is not positive?

Why are you very confused? I was responding to what you said:

I'm not sure what your reasoning is, and it doesn't matter, but over the course of the next few years, maybe even right now, avoiding them and the few others like them is going to greatly limit what one can get in the affordable segment. They are absolutely making the best watches under $500 and it's not even close.

You're 'very confused' / you're 'not sure'... and 'the best' is a matter of opinion.

My point is that it would be unfortunate if macros were to disappear - or to use your own verbiage, be greatly limited - because of the popularity of knock off brands like San Martin. You can use as much whataboutism as you like - it does not detract from the fact that they are first and foremost a knock off brand.

I'd take a Monta any day over one of these...

(Except I can't as monta is a slang term for menstruation in Swedish...)

 

Why are you very confused? I was responding to what you said:


You're 'very confused' / you're 'not sure'... and 'the best' is a matter of opinion.

My point is that it would be unfortunate if macros were to disappear - or to use your own verbiage, be greatly limited - because of the popularity of knock off brands like San Martin. You can use as much whataboutism as you like - it does not detract from the fact that they are first and foremost a knock off brand.

I'd take a Monta any day over one of these...

(Except I can't as monta is a slang term for menstruation in Swedish...)


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"You don't" "need to" "use" sarcasm quotes. You can just type your statements like we're both capable adults. And also, I would also take a Monta over those? Where in the world was that ever in question? Your understanding of my arguments is "confusing".

I never said the other micros were going anywhere. You've invented that conclusion. I said one would be limiting themselves by avoiding the brand in that segment because these are so good. You can also just stop manufacturing ways to make it appear that San Martin only makes homages, like filtering through the international stock, for instance. I'm not even going to bother going to grab photos of the original designs they also make because you don't actually want to have an argument that's intellectually honest. China bad. Got it. Fun fact: San Martin is the only company who makes both homages and original designs. There are no heritage companies who do that. Every Swiss design, completely new.

 

These are or used to be owned by Everest watchbands right?