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(moderator's note - I've splits this discussion into its own thread to avoid too much digression in the 'Final prototype pictures' thread)

The rotor looks great but "Swiss Technology"

.... Was hoping that wouldn't be there.





I'm very excited for more photos :)
 

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Re: Final prototypes pictures

The movement is a Chinese 'copy' of a Swiss movement. The movement this one copies says Made in Switzerland in the same spot.
What movement is this a copy of?
 

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Re: Final prototypes pictures

I've seen it before.

The movement is a Chinese 'copy' of a Swiss movement. The movement this one copies says Made in Switzerland in the same spot.
Cheers mate. Then this should say "Chung Kuo Technology" to complete the Confusion :)

Edit: I was half kidding of course. Chinese manufacturers shouldn't be so modest before the Swiss or Japanese nowadays |>
 

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Re: Final prototypes pictures

For an F72 watch, I think it adds charm. I'm for it!
I disagree. If such an inscription had been visible on the original sample shown, I would probably have objected as detracting from a Chinese watch forum project.

I'm still curious to know what this is supposed to be a "copy" of because I don't recall ever seeing a Swiss watch movement inscribed "Swiss Technology". It seems somehow redundant. Perhaps there is some confusion with the company called Swiss Technology Production (STP)? But even their movements are not inscribed "Swiss Technology".
 

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Re: Final prototypes pictures

What movement is this a copy of?
I've been informed that the 'copy' is supposedly of the IWC 5001 7-day movement. The Pellaton auto-winding system is prominently visible lying in the same plane as the fully-exposed ratchet wheel. There are numerous other obvious differences that mark the Liaoning SL-6601 as a unique design.


https://www.iwc.com/forum/en/discussion/65497/

I think that it would be fairer to say that the 6601, like several other Chinese movements having PR at 3, date at 6 and seconds at 9, has been used by fakers of IWC watches, rather than that it has been made for the specific purpose of faking. For those who doubt that, consider the development cost involved in establishing production of an all new movement and consider whether those costs could be justified in faking one line of one Swiss brand whose connoisseur fans know exactly what to look for through a display case back.
 

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An experienced friend of mine actually dissected a SL6601, and he found a subsections of the the 7750 and one other movement (perhaps it was the 2824, I forgot), which is not really surprising because Liaoning makes Chinese clones of these classic Swiss movements (actually it seems that their 7750 clone is pretty good), but of course a lot of pieces are specific for this SL6601 movement.

Today we did the QC of the project watches, and we found 3 watches with the wrong inscription, it should say power reserve on the movement. It turned out that we accidentally received in error 3 variant movements that were in fact for a different customer of Peacock. These will be replaced for our project.
 

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Thanks for clearing that up.

(...and Deij, I'm sorry; I realise now that I had thought that you were saying that the movement was inscribed "Swiss Technology" because it is a copy of a Swiss movement, but really you were saying that it was inscribed "Swiss Technology" and it is a copy of a Swiss movement. Two separate statements. o|)
 

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And I had thought that "Swiss Technology" inscription was an acknowledgement rather than a replication of something else.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification MrDagon007. I like "Power Reserve" much better than "Swiss Technology", heck, even "Powerpuff Girls" would be better than a rep of anything.
 

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And I had thought that "Swiss Technology" inscription was an acknowledgement rather than a replication of something else.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification MrDagon007. I like "Power Reserve" much better than "Swiss Technology", heck, even "Powerpuff Girls" would be better than a rep of anything.
The Powerpuff Girls watch? That's next year's project :-d

It's fascinating those insights into common components. It offers a real window into the practical design process. I'm reminded of an occasion that I was dropping off a job at the watchmaker and he was looking at a magazine article about Chinese tourbillons (this was nearly 10 years ago). He showed me a photo of a Beijing TB-01 (i.e. seriously elite stuff) and because it was skeletonised, part of the keyless works was visible. He pointed out that some parts were identical to the common Tongji movement! A very pragmatic decision typical of the Chinese industry where haute horologie and generics are designed and built in the same factories.
 

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Now that I have the movement to inspect in person, some comments that respond to various things said in this thread:

1. The blue is actually quite interesting, and not remotely cheesy. I was worried about that, but the color is transparent enough that it looks metallic. Contrast that with the red coloring on Oris rotors, which is opaque pigment that makes the rotor look plastic.

2. The stripes on the movement look polished, not flycut. This is the first Chinese movement I've seen (realizing that's a limited sampling) where the striped graining looks like it was made with a polish wheel rather than a flycut mill. The result is much better than I'm used to seeing.

3. This is not a pocket-watch movement. The fourth wheel is centered, and the seconds hand at 9 is indirectly driven. It has a spring that prevents the hand from chattering, and indeed the motion is very smooth. A pocket-watch movement would have the fourth wheel driving the sub-seconds directly. At its core, the going training (whatever its source) was designed for central seconds.

4. Winding appears to be bi-directional. I see a reverser wheel that rotates in the clockwise direction (when viewed from the back) no matter which way the rotor turns.

5. The plate covering the left-hand wheel in the hand-wind train, and the ratchet wheel, are grained radially. But the two intermediate gears are polished. The first left-hand wheel (driven by the stem) uses a plate with two screws, and the third wheel in that train, which also turns such that it would unscrew a retaining screw, uses a left-hand-threaded screw with the appropriate contrasting slots to signal the watchmaker that righty-tighty-lefty-loosey doesn't work here.

6. The movement doesn't look to me like any other movement. As was mentioned, it may be a combination of portions of other movements--the going train could certainly fit in a smaller movement.

Rick "timing test in progress" Denney
 

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Thanks for these fascinating insights :-! Now I'm really, really, really keen to see it for myself.
 

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.

6. The movement doesn't look to me like any other movement. As was mentioned, it may be a combination of portions of other movements--the going train could certainly fit in a smaller movement.

Rick "timing test in progress" Denney
So my friend found subsets similar the 7750 and the 2824 (hence "swiss technology" inspired!), probably reused from their other products, but much of the movement is its own thing.

Didn't do formal timing test myself however it seems to keep time very well.
And the long power reserve is such a joy. Leaving it in the cupboard and still running after 2 days unlike my etas.
 

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Having a look over mine the last few days, stunner. Pleased to say not too big on the wrist, both case shape and lowered lugs help for sure. Great job guys, cheers.
Something I hadn't seen before though, the movement is engraved around the outside in different rings, then gold filled, ace.
Noticed an odd marking, hoping someone may be able to explain.

https://www.poljot24.de/en/automatik-uhren/automatic-red-star-7010.html

3-days power reserve automatic watch to commemorate the founding ceremony of China in 1949

Our, Jun's, and Julian's all show 31 jewels on the rotor, yet the movement is marked thirty three, wonder why.
 

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Our, Jun's, and Julian's all show 31 jewels on the rotor, yet the movement is marked thirty three, wonder why.
Now you're going to need to take them all out and count them.
 

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So far, I've noticed that isochronism isn't perfect. As the watch winds down, it slows down.



I took it off Friday evening and have let us rest in various positions since then. The power reserve is now at about 30% (of the white part of the scale) when the latest timing test was done.

Even at the slower rate, it doesn't violate expectations.

Also, winding efficiency isn't great--I wore it at the office on Friday and it would maintain the wind state but not increase it. And I am wearing it this morning, with the same effect even at the lower wind state. I have been moving around this morning more than while at the office. This watch will need a full manual wind before wearing.

Rick "still testing" Denney
 
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Thanks for this, Rick "still testing" Denney - very insightful.

Winding efficiency is a strange thing - my Seiko 5 and IWC Portuguese Automatic are probably the most efficient auto-winders in my collection. Some other pieces barely maintain their "charge" with a regular day at the office / behind a desk. Looks like this one will fall in the latter category too.
 

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Yup, a lack of isochronism. I entered a datapoint this morning with the reserve just at the boundary between yellow and red on the scale. It was pushing a rate of -29 s/d. Then, I fully wound it, and 4.5 hours later, the rate has jumped back up to +1.7.



I took it off Friday evening and put it back on this morning (plus three hours yesterday morning). Given that wearing it only maintained the wind, it had about 69 hours of rest time from the previous full wind. I do wish the winding system was a bit more efficient, so that wearing it with my lifestyle would actually wind it up and not just maintain the wind. But I'll keep an eye on that.

Rick "wind it up and wear it to keep it wound" Denney
 
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