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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Salesman at an AD told me the Speedmaster is a Seamaster and that he wins a prize at Omega training with that obscure tidbit. Any truth to this?
 

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Not to my knowledge and it doesn't make sense logically. Don't think I'd take the Speedy into any 'Sea' and their designs are totally different and they have separate section on the Omega website for a reason.

Not sure what training he goes to, but it could be the equivalent of the Razzies for Omega salesmen.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah, the website area came to mind but only after I had left.

I know my Mark 3 came with a Seamaster caseback from back in '73.
 

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You guys all owe the salesman an apology. He is right. The history of the speedmaster is the history of the mechanical wind Omega 3 register chronograph. The first movement was the 27CHROC12. The following watches had that movement per the Omega vintage db. The 1957 version was a Seamaster.
Reference
Collection
Name
Version
Year
CK 2279
- Other -
Stainless steel
1943
see details
CK 2287
- Other -
Stainless steel
1943
see details
CK 2886
Seamaster
Stainless steel
1957
see details

This movement was then renamed 321 and appeared in the following watches:

Reference
Collection
Name
Version
Year
145.0003
Seamaster
Stainless steel
1967
see details
BA 141.0010
De Ville
18K solid yellow gold
1966
see details
CK 14364
Seamaster
Stainless steel
1959
see details
CK 14904
Seamaster
Stainless steel
1960 - 1962
see details
CK 2451
- Other -
Stainless steel
1946
see details
CK 2915
Seamaster
Speedmaster
Stainless steel
1957
see details
CK 2998
Seamaster
Speedmaster
Stainless steel
1959
see details
KO 2907
Seamaster
Gold-cap on stainless steel
1958
see details
OJ 2439
- Other -
14K solid gold
1949
see details
OT 2439
- Other -
18K solid gold
1949
see details
OT 2451
- Other -
18K solid gold
1946
see details
OT 2468
- Other -
18K solid gold
1946
see details
OT 2884
Seamaster
18K solid gold
1957
see details
ST 105.0001
Seamaster
Stainless steel
1962
see details
ST 105.0002
Seamaster
Speedmaster
Stainless steel
1962
see details
ST 105.0003
Seamaster
Speedmaster
Stainless steel
1963 - 1969
see details
ST 105.0004
Seamaster
Stainless steel
1962 - 1965
see details
ST 105.0005
Seamaster
Stainless steel
1962
see details
ST 105.0012
Seamaster
Speedmaster Professional
Stainless steel
1963
see details
ST 145.0005
De Ville
Stainless steel
1966
see details
ST 145.0006
Seamaster
Stainless steel
1966
see details
ST 145.0012
Seamaster
Speedmaster Professional
Stainless steel
1966
see details

The 321s are mostly part of the Seamaster or DeVille collections. The first appearance of speedmaster is in 1957 and it is part of the Seamaster collection.
The next movement is the 861, and many of the experts consider this a descendant of the 321 and I have to take their word for that since I am not a watchmaker. In 1968 professional first appears and the Speedmaster Professional is still listed as being part of the Seamaster collection. In 1969 the Speedmaster collection first appears with its' many offshoots. The Seamaster and DeVille collections also have c861 watches.


Reference
Collection
Name
Version
Year
3570.50.00
Speedmaster
"Moon Watch"
Stainless steel
1996
see details
3590.50.00
Speedmaster
"Moon Watch"
Stainless steel
1989
see details
3591.50.00
Speedmaster
"Moon Watch" 25th anniversary Apollo XI
Stainless steel
1994
see details
3891.50.00
Speedmaster
"Moon Watch" 25th anniversary Apollo XI
Stainless steel
1994
see details
4840
De Ville
Prestige
Stainless steel
1993
see details
BA 145.0022
Speedmaster
Moon Watch "De Luxe"
18K solid yellow gold
1969
see details
BA 345.0802
Speedmaster
18K solid yellow gold
1980
see details
BJ 145.0041.009
- Other -
De Luxe Chronograph
Solid yellow gold
1983
see details
DD 145.0022
Speedmaster
Special Italy
Stainless steel with solid gold bezel
1987
see details
DD 145.0022
Speedmaster
Stainless steel with solid gold bezel
1981
see details
DL 345.0803
Speedmaster
"German version"
Stainless steel
1982 - 1985
see details
MD 145.0034
Speedmaster
Mark II
Gold-plated
1972
see details
ST 145.0014
Speedmaster
Mark II
Stainless steel
1969
see details
ST 145.0016
Seamaster
[Not specified]
Stainless steel
1969 - 1973
see details
ST 145.0018
De Ville
Stainless steel
1968
see details
ST 145.0019
Seamaster
Stainless steel
1969
see details
ST 145.0020
Seamaster
Stainless steel
1969
see details
ST 145.0022
Seamaster
Speedmaster Professional
Stainless steel
1968
see details
ST 145.0022
Speedmaster
Apollo-Soyuz ("Moon watch")
Stainless steel
1975
see details
ST 145.0022.100
Speedmaster
"Moon Watch" 20th anniversary Apollo XI
Stainless steel
1989
see details
ST 145.0022.101
Speedmaster
"Moon Watch" 20th anniversary Apollo XI
Stainless steel
1989
see details
ST 145.0022.102
Speedmaster
"Moon Watch" 20th anniversary Apollo XI
Stainless steel
1989
see details
ST 145.0023
Seamaster
Hardened steel cap, bombarded with tungsten (1200 Vickers)
1970 - 1975
see details
ST 145.0024
Seamaster
Stainless steel
1970
see details
ST 145.0029
Seamaster
Stainless steel
1971
see details
Reference
Collection
Name
Version
Year
ST 145.0037
Speedmaster
Mark II - Telestop
Stainless steel
1971
see details
ST 145.022.1051
Speedmaster
Mir (2nd series 1995)
Stainless steel
1995
see details
ST 345.0022.100
Speedmaster
Moon Watch
Stainless steel
1989
see details
ST 345.0022.101
Speedmaster
Moon Watch 20th anniversary Apollo XI
Stainless steel
1989
see details
ST 345.0803
Speedmaster
"German version"
Stainless steel
1982
see details

The 861 evolves into the 1861 and all of the watches with the 1861 are part of the Speedmaster collection. That salesman was right in that the Speedmaster started out as part of the Seamaster collection but is wrong in that the Speedmaster became its' own collection in 1969.
 

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good job richard:-!
 

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Well done :-!

My first thoughts was typicall salesguy that wants to impress, be important, but there you go, you never know.
 

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Here's my "Speedmaster" from 1998 that is definitively a Seamaster:



Fr. John+
 

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Some early Speedmasters had a Seamaster caseback.
Yup, and that's what makes things even more confusing. Aside from the Moonwatch, most Speedmasters from the early to mid-70s, including the Mark II, III, and V, along with all the c.1045-based models (other than the Maddox Grail) had Seamaster casebacks. Heck, the Speedy Pro still has the hippocampus on the back!

eric
 

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Nobody at Omega was ever able to explain it properly. They would always say something like "Well, the Speedmaster is derived from the Seamaster range", but that never made any sense.
Thanks for the clarification, Richard.
Although personally, wouldn't it have made more sense for the Speedmaster range to feature a Pegasus (heck, even a dragon would make more sense. Take any land-based animal and slap a couple of wings on it.) on the case-back to differentiate it a little more from the Seahorse logo?
 

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The Speedmaster started out as part of the Seamaster family which is why they had the hippocampus on the back, basically signifying that they were waterproof. Then when they took off with a life of their own, the became part of the family but the original roots were Seamaster.
 
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