[The Boots]

I'm a complete novice when it comes to watches, but I wanted to see how much I'd miss my Smartwatch if I gave it up for a mechanical.

I got an automatic and really have enjoyed it, but there are two problems with it that I wanted advice on. I'm happy to look at another watch (famous last words), maybe even all the way up to $500 or so.

The watch I got after some research was a Seagull M182sk and I LOVE almost everything about it, especially the skeleton movement.
Unfortunately, the hands are thin and dark-ish red, so are very difficult to see. I know visibility on skeleton dials is generally a problem, but this seems over-the-top. If the hands were a bit thicker and maybe had some of the luminous paint, I think it would be ok. That's problem one.
Problem two is that I'd really like to have the day of the month on it. I've noticed that this is really uncommon in skeleton watches, and after thinking about it, I can see why. The date dial would block a lot of the movement. Still, I figured maybe someone had a clever solution that I just hadn't seen.

Long story short, is there such a thing as a decent watch with a skeleton automatic movement with a day of the month display and readable hands for <$500?

The closest thing I found was the Christopher Ward C60 sapphire, which checks nearly all the boxes, but is above my budget at present (~$1000).

If there aren't any more affordable options, I may just try to find replacement hands for the Seagull and save my pennies for a bit.

 

[carpoon]

There's actually a double skeleton watch on Amazon, but with even less visible hands than yours. I would order watch hands that you like for the Sea-Gull Automatic ST1602 movement that's in your watch. Then any jewelry store should be able to replace the hands for you for fairly easily or you can get the tools and swap the hands yourself.

 

[robbery]

The Theorema Toronto in this thread seems pretty legible for a skeleton watch: SHOW YOUR SKELETON WATCHES.. Looks like retail is $300ish so maybe you could find it cheaper.

I like @carpoon 's suggestion to put legible hands on your current watch (like you say, thick and well lumed). It could be effective and affordable. I'm skeptical that you'll find a legible skeleton with a nice looking date wheel in your price range, but I couldn't say for sure.

I have another suggestion for you to consider: Enjoy your current watch for what it is and get a different watch to use for occasions when legibility is important, if you don't already have one. My reasoning is 1) the original hands on your skeleton watch are a good match for the style of the watch, and look quite nice when the watch is angled to catch the light just so, so it would kind of detract from the cohesive aesthetic of the watch to put sports style hands on it. 2) many people are really into skeleton watches when they first get interested in watches, and almost all of them move onto being more interested in other types of watches after a short while. Or if it's not skeletons at first, it's moon phase or it's radio controlled or something else. Nothing wrong with any of those things, they are lovely, it's just that few "defining" attributes of a watch really end up holding a person's watch nerd passion for as long as they expect. I hear the story a lot that at first, we want the watch we buy to be THE watch for life, but instead it ends up being the watch we look back on fondly that got us into watches but we don't wear too often anymore. So a part of me wants to say don't invest too much in chasing the perfect skeleton watch, since you may soon find a passion for pilot watches or dive watches or whatever instead.

Then again that chase, however futile, is kind of what it's all about, huh?

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

 

[The Boots]

The Theorema Toronto in this thread seems pretty legible for a skeleton watch: SHOW YOUR SKELETON WATCHES.. Looks like retail is $300ish so maybe you could find it cheaper.

I like @carpoon 's suggestion to put legible hands on your current watch (like you say, thick and well lumed). It could be effective and affordable. I'm skeptical that you'll find a legible skeleton with a nice looking date wheel in your price range, but I couldn't say for sure.

I have another suggestion for you to consider: Enjoy your current watch for what it is and get a different watch to use for occasions when legibility is important, if you don't already have one. My reasoning is 1) the original hands on your skeleton watch are a good match for the style of the watch, and look quite nice when the watch is angled to catch the light just so, so it would kind of detract from the cohesive aesthetic of the watch to put sports style hands on it. 2) many people are really into skeleton watches when they first get interested in watches, and almost all of them move onto being more interested in other types of watches after a short while. Or if it's not skeletons at first, it's moon phase or it's radio controlled or something else. Nothing wrong with any of those things, they are lovely, it's just that few "defining" attributes of a watch really end up holding a person's watch nerd passion for as long as they expect. I hear the story a lot that at first, we want the watch we buy to be THE watch for life, but instead it ends up being the watch we look back on fondly that got us into watches but we don't wear too often anymore. So a part of me wants to say don't invest too much in chasing the perfect skeleton watch, since you may soon find a passion for pilot watches or dive watches or whatever instead.

Then again that chase, however futile, is kind of what it's all about, huh?

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

WOW! There's a lot to unpack there! Thank you for putting so much time into my question!

The Theorema watch looks amazing, but unless I'm missing something, it doesn't show the date. The sub-dial just looks to be the seconds. I did find an open heart watch that has the full date on their current website, but I've seen a few of those before. The Monaco is a bit busy, but it has the date and at least marginally better hands.

As for your comments about not getting hung up on a skeleton movement, you're not wrong. The thing is, that if I'm truly honest, I'm more of an engineering nerd than a watch nerd. I've watched Clickspring on YouTube for a long time, and I've recently started watching watch repair videos to learn about the movements and how they work. I thought watches are nice and all, but then I saw just how much is packed into even the cheapest mechanical watches, and the fact that people have been doing this for centuries blew my mind. I thought, "Why are you hiding this beautiful engineering and craftsmanship?!" A skeleton watch seemed like a natural choice.

Now, this could end up being a gateway drug into the wider world of watches, I won't deny that. I'm positive I could get sucked into trying to find super accurate movements or unusual complications and such, though.
Nonetheless, your suggestion to look into non-skeleton designs is absolutely excellent, and I'd already had a few ideas for what I was sort of imagined as a "utility" watch-- a watch that prioritizes being actually useful a bit more than the Seagull-- which is 100% form over function, if I'm honest.
I've seen a few Seikos and Orients that I like the looks of, have all the things I need, and they're both well within reach, pricewise, if a bit... Bland?
If there's one thing I've never been accused of though, it's being normal. Maybe I'm looking for a watch that's just as quirky as I am!

I can't thank you enough though. The reply is more than I ever thought I'd get, and it gives me a lot to think about!

 

[Dcreed]

built your own watch with a eta valjoux 7750 around the 500 dollar🧐

 

[sticky]

Chris Ward has regular sales and there is an outside chance that the Sapphire will be included in it. Join their mailing list to get early notifications of upcoming events and hope that the Sapphire is in the 50% mob. If it is don’t delay as the best stuff goes very fast (ask me how I know this)

 

[The Boots]

I stumbled across the Reef Tiger Photographer.

Photographer Artist RGA1950-YBB

Photographer Artist RGA1950-YBB

www.reeftiger.com

It looks like it might work, but it seems to be out of production. It has date, at least a bit of open dial, and the hands on this color seem pretty visible.

There are still places that have it, but I don't know how trustworthy they are. Are there any sites that people like that would sell Reef Tigers?

 

[robbery]

Thanks for the thoughtful response to my response, lol. I really love the idea of loving watches through the eyes of an engineer. My watch nerd eyes are more those of a graphic designer or industrial designer (this has saved me a lot of money since I can find some design aspect to live even in a humble swatch or $12 Russian special). Since the only skeleton with a date I turned up in a brief search was not a nice looking watch, I'll go ahead and wrongly assume that there is no such thing and instead comment with some non-skeleton watches and brands I thought might interest an engineer.

Seagull hand-wound chronos give a beautiful look at the movement's many fascinating pieces through the display back.

OVD makes watches with domed planets and moons inside them, with fascinating cases and big bubble crystals.

Xeric makes an inverted watch where the movement is on top of the dial!

They also do lots of models that try to reimagine the way that time is indicated on a watch face. (many different models with a range of prices)

Egard makes a watch with a double balance wheel (two "open hearts")

A variety of Chinese brands now offer affordable tourbillon watches (like an open heart on steroids), some are under $500

Atowak is crowdfunding a watch with a wandering hours complication.

Eone makes a watch that tells the time via tiny magnetic balls that roll around the exterior of the watch.

The Electricianz makes light-up watches where the electronic components are visible and made the star of the show.

Speaking of visible electronics, Accutron spaceview watches are extremely innovative from an electronics engineering standpoint, and vintage ones can still be had for under $500 I think.

And that's to say nothing of all the interesting watch engineering that's not really visible, like extreme water resistance, hardened metals, anti magnetism, shock resistance, etc.

Hopefully more will occur to me (or other wus'ers) later, but that's a decent start for now. What do you think?

 

[TempusHertz]

Long story short, is there such a thing as a decent watch with a skeleton automatic movement with a day of the month display and readable hands for <$500?

I get where you're coming from. Mechanical movements are amazing, and hiding them is a real shame. Personally, I have come to the conclusion that there are two real solutions. One is the display case - all you have to do is flip the watch over. That Seagull is beautiful. The other is open heart watches like this Orient.

 

[The Boots]

Thanks for the thoughtful response to my response, lol. I really love the idea of loving watches through the eyes of an engineer. My watch nerd eyes are more those of a graphic designer or industrial designer (this has saved me a lot of money since I can find some design aspect to live even in a humble swatch or $12 Russian special). Since the only skeleton with a date I turned up in a brief search was not a nice looking watch, I'll go ahead and wrongly assume that there is no such thing and instead comment with some non-skeleton watches and brands I thought might interest an engineer.

Seagull hand-wound chronos give a beautiful look at the movement's many fascinating pieces through the display back. View attachment 16282986

OVD makes watches with domed planets and moons inside them, with fascinating cases and big bubble crystals.
View attachment 16282990

Xeric makes an inverted watch where the movement is on top of the dial!
View attachment 16282994

They also do lots of models that try to reimagine the way that time is indicated on a watch face. (many different models with a range of prices)
View attachment 16282997

Egard makes a watch with a double balance wheel (two "open hearts")
View attachment 16283000

A variety of Chinese brands now offer affordable tourbillon watches (like an open heart on steroids), some are under $500
View attachment 16283007

Atowak is crowdfunding a watch with a wandering hours complication.
View attachment 16283015

Eone makes a watch that tells the time via tiny magnetic balls that roll around the exterior of the watch.
View attachment 16283017

The Electricianz makes light-up watches where the electronic components are visible and made the star of the show.
View attachment 16283019

Speaking of visible electronics, Accutron spaceview watches are extremely innovative from an electronics engineering standpoint, and vintage ones can still be had for under $500 I think.
View attachment 16283022

And that's to say nothing of all the interesting watch engineering that's not really visible, like extreme water resistance, hardened metals, anti magnetism, shock resistance, etc.

Hopefully more will occur to me (or other wus'ers) later, but that's a decent start for now. What do you think?

Did you see the note I posted on the Reef Tiger Photographer? Depending on where I look, it claims to be a Tourbillon, but I didn't put much stock in that. It does look nice, have an open heart, and a date display. It even has a power reserve. Plus, the white hands on a black surface looks plenty readable.
It looks pretty decent, but I'm not sure of a place to get it. Most of the places I found it were pretty sketchy. Broken English is one thing, but they left the Lorem Ipsum in some of their pages... 😒
As for the watches you showed, they're pretty amazing!
I think my favorite overall is the Bulova one. I hate that people don't think electronics are beautiful in their natural state. If you take the time to look at modern PCBs, they're pretty incredible. Some look like tiny cities, with roads and buildings all over the place. The nice looking ones are out of my price range, though.
The movement-on-top one is also pretty neat! I ran across that one in my searches, to be honest, and I liked it then, too. It'll also push the budget a bit, but it's looking like saving up is going to be required either way!
Thanks again!

 

[The Boots]

View attachment 16283434

I get where you're coming from. Mechanical movements are amazing, and hiding them is a real shame. Personally, I have come to the conclusion that there are two real solutions. One is the display case - all you have to do is flip the watch over. That Seagull is beautiful. The other is open heart watches like this Orient.

I'm leaning more to the open-heart watch idea myself. However, even a lot of THOSE don't have dates! They do seem to be way more common than full skeleton watches with date displays, though.
I've found a few--
Some Earnshaw ones that claim to have a Seagull Movement, like this one which claims an ST25 of some kind. Not sure if I buy that, given the price.

and this one with a mystery movement(that has GOTTA be the same as the previous one, right?), but exposes a bit more of the mechanism.

There's also this similar Ingersoll, that is actually probably the best looking of the lot:

And the Seagull M163S

So I've got choices, I just need to figure out which one.

 

[Craggy Island's Finest]

WOW! There's a lot to unpack there! Thank you for putting so much time into my question!

The Theorema watch looks amazing, but unless I'm missing something, it doesn't show the date. The sub-dial just looks to be the seconds. I did find an open heart watch that has the full date on their current website, but I've seen a few of those before. The Monaco is a bit busy, but it has the date and at least marginally better hands.

As for your comments about not getting hung up on a skeleton movement, you're not wrong. The thing is, that if I'm truly honest, I'm more of an engineering nerd than a watch nerd. I've watched Clickspring on YouTube for a long time, and I've recently started watching watch repair videos to learn about the movements and how they work. I thought watches are nice and all, but then I saw just how much is packed into even the cheapest mechanical watches, and the fact that people have been doing this for centuries blew my mind. I thought, "Why are you hiding this beautiful engineering and craftsmanship?!" A skeleton watch seemed like a natural choice.

Now, this could end up being a gateway drug into the wider world of watches, I won't deny that. I'm positive I could get sucked into trying to find super accurate movements or unusual complications and such, though.
Nonetheless, your suggestion to look into non-skeleton designs is absolutely excellent, and I'd already had a few ideas for what I was sort of imagined as a "utility" watch-- a watch that prioritizes being actually useful a bit more than the Seagull-- which is 100% form over function, if I'm honest.
I've seen a few Seikos and Orients that I like the looks of, have all the things I need, and they're both well within reach, pricewise, if a bit... Bland?
If there's one thing I've never been accused of though, it's being normal. Maybe I'm looking for a watch that's just as quirky as I am!

I can't thank you enough though. The reply is more than I ever thought I'd get, and it gives me a lot to think about!

The big issue would be that a 'naked' date complication is, frankly speaking, usually pretty ugly, that's why skeleton watches tend to avoid it - you just end up having a disk with 31 positions covering the entire outer edge of the watch:

It could probably be done, but a lot of details in the movement will be lost. Personally I find it not worthy, better to get a skeleton and a date watch with a display back, then of course YMMV

View attachment 16283434

For this intersection, I will forever suggest the black dial Benyar 5121, a gaudy 50 Euro watch, and the most legible skeleton ever (in fact, I was wearing it today in the office). Amusingly, it's the only watch that I have that usually receives (mostly positive) comments, despite being the cheapest:

Considering the price, by far one of the best gateway watches out there

 

[The Boots]

Update: I found a very cheap listing for this watch:

So I'm going to try it out while I keep an eye out and save up for the Christopher Ward.

 

[TempusHertz]

Let us know how it works!

I see date and day of the week on the left side of the dial, but I don't see a hand for the day of the week. Bit odd, that. So are the numbers to the right of the months. Quirky.

 

[The Boots]

Let us know how it works!

I see date and day of the week on the left side of the dial, but I don't see a hand for the day of the week. Bit odd, that. So are the numbers to the right of the months. Quirky.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I got it. It was <$20 shipped, so I figured it was worth it to see how those dials even worked. I was thinking it might be having day-of-week wheel counterrotating at the correct rate would make the day of the week and date align under the hand.