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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently saw this watch, it is nice but I have some doubts about its legitimacy.



My doubts arise from three considerations:

1) The first consideration is the weakest: the machine is a SU 2609.HA ( ok, ok, this may be due to the transition period, etc. etc.)
2) The second question is more important.You see that logo on the dial similar to the one of the Soviet Union? is legitimate? I do not believe so.
3) and what about the PAKETA written on the dial identical to that one on the box ? I always saw the red box with "PAKETA" written in that way (with a line joining the A and K as also the three letters ETA), but I've never seen the watches with the same written on the dial ( i mean with the same graphics, style, fashion)

What do you think?
 

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I recently saw this watch, it is nice but I have some doubts about its legitimacy.



My doubts arise from three considerations:

1) The first consideration is the weakest: the machine is a SU 2609.HA ( ok, ok, this may be due to the transition period, etc. etc.)
2) The second question is more important.You see that logo on the dial similar to the one of the Soviet Union? is legitimate? I do not believe so.
3) and what about the PAKETA written on the dial identical to that one on the box ? I always saw the red box with "PAKETA" written in that way (with a line joining the A and K as also the three letters ETA), but I've never seen the watches with the same written on the dial ( i mean with the same graphics, style, fashion)

What do you think?
I've never seen those hands before either. The box is the same as those sold in Italy in the late Soviet era. Could this be a special edition for that market?

And does anybody know what the 'D', 'T' and 'Sh' on the dial means?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
the 'D', 'T' and 'Sh' on the dial should be the initals of the numbers ( три, шесть,девять )

I am Italian, i liive in Rome. As you said those boxes were for watches for the Italian market and those watches are well known watches (perpetual calendar, Raketa 0, Zestril, ..) but I had never seen this watch before now and now suddenly it appeared many.
 

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It seems ok to me. Notice the quality of the relief markers on dial, same as Soviet time. Normally fake dials are plain, and made of sheet of paper printed. Then again I might be wrong. Just a opinion...:roll:
 

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I've never seen this model, but that doesn't mean much - there are so many!

The "SU" on the movement - I think this is common, even on post-SU watches, either because of old movement stocks, or because they kept using the symbol.

The pentagonal quality mark on the dial: it's identical to the usual "quality mark", except for the absence of the letters "CCCP" inside the pentagon, above the two outspread "arms" of the star. I haven't seen this before, but perhaps they kept the symbol as an indicator of quality, whilst dropping the "CCCP" - I'm not sure.

The "Paketa" on the dial (and box) looks OK to me, but a really close-up photo would help.

The hands are definitely unusual - I've never seen these on a Raketa. But, again, this proves nothing - they did make a variety of hands, so this could be a "special edition".

The dial design - never seen it before, but again this proves nothing. At least it should be well-made if it's a real Raketa.

The case itself looks like a standard Raketa design.

So - there's nothing obviously "wrong" with it, but it is unusual. Perhaps someone else here can confirm one way or the other; otherwise, you could always email Luiza at Raketa.
 

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Phd,

A lot have been attributed to the presence of the "rosette" logo; some eBay sellers claim that its presence indicates a superior product but this is not really the case.

An explanation of the rosette logo is here; even though the site is for Soviet-made calculators, the principle is still the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I have written to the Raketa and now the answer has arrived:-!

First of all a picture:



And now the text:

"Dear Antonio,
Thank you very much for your support and for noticing us this traffic of fake Raketa watches in Italy.
I will try to give you a short answer, though we could discuss this for hours and write about this problem many pages.
First of all : If you buy some original spare parts from Mercedes and if you integrate them on a Chinese made car, even though a few parts may be original, it does not make the final car an original Mercedes. It is the same with Raketa. Actually many watch brands have the same problem, that counterfeit watches may contain some original parts. Even Rolex has this problem, that some very well imitated Rolex watches may contain original spare parts. In Russia all the Watch repair shops can order original parts from Raketa, so that they can repair watches that clients bring to them for repair. So that it is quiet easy for some repair shops to obtain original details. Though, it was not well controlled in the past, now we have a very strict control of repair shops that buy spare-parts from us.
All these counterfeits shown in your picture are not even sold in Russia, where we also have problems with many counterfeits sold. It seems for the moment that they are only sold in Italy. that makes us believe that they were produced in Italy, or ordered by an Italian inChina.
Now, concerning these ridiculous counterfeits. I will give you just a few indications to show you how ridiculously these watches are counterfeits.
Few examples:
Counterfeit 1 and 2:
Even a 5 year old Russian child would not make such writing mistakes in Russian, These counterfeits are just a joke, It is just funny. The most funny is at 9 o'clock is written 10 with writing mistakes. This dial was probably designed by an illiterate Chinese (maybe Italian) child. How can the Italian forum owner even pretend he is a specialist in Russian watches? He is all but a specialist, he is nothing more than an illegal counterfeit dealer, using his forum notoriety to make money and screw honest Italian Russian watch lovers. We are very sorry for all the Italians who got screwed by him.

Countrfeit 4
Also very funny. At 6 o'clock there is a sign that look similar to the Russian letter "CH" (like "chest", 6 in Russian), but only similar, it is not a "CH"… but do you know what it really is? It is a Chinese word meaning in Chinese "Mountain", It seems that the Chinese designer that made this dial, took the most similar sign he had on his computer to a Russian "CH" , that was a Chinese hieroglyph meaning "Mountain".

Counterfeit 6
If a Russian would have designed this dial in the 70's or 80's as your Italian Counterfeit dealer is pretending, then this Russian would probably be in a Siberian prison camp for 20 years. The Soviet Union quality logo that is in the center of the dial, was a quality sign that a very very few items were awarded with. It was very very strictly controlled who could or not put this sign on an item. It was the symbol of quality for the Soviet Industry. And no one was allowed to joke with this quality logo. The watches that got this sign are very few. You may basically consider that a watch with this sign sold on ebay is usually a counterfeit, especially if the watch is new. But most of all if a designer would during soviet times put this government quality control sign so big and in the middle of the dial so that the logo itself is spoiled by the hands and the hole in the center of the dial. Then you may be sure that this designer would loose his job, and most probably send to jail for disrespect to the construction of the Soviet Industry.

I will not even go into details with the other watches displayed on your pictures, they are just cheap counterfeits, we can easily recognize they are fake, 1st we never produced such dials, some of the hands are POLJOT imitated hands, and the Raketa engravings on the back of the watches are just a joke, we never did engravings this way…
So, this seller practise to sell fake watches. I advice you don't trust him.
Thank you very much one more time for you help, please accept our best regards,
Luisa"

Well! to this point do you know what the vendor of these clocks say? he say that the Raketa (Luisa) mind knowing to lie!o|
 

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Those watches were already discussed some time ago.

In my opinion:

1) they are not totally made in Russia
2) they have original Soviet components
3) they were sold by the official Italian Raketa distributor in the late '80s
4) dials were not originally designed by the factory; they were (more probably) made in Russia under Italian design, or totally made in Italy.
More or less, same story of the Vostok chronographs.

As final conclusion, being assembled for/by the official distributor, they are "spurious" products, probably made to create something new (and more dedicated to young people) besides the official Russian catalogue, but i don't think they are fakes.

As always, just my 2 cents. Hope to not hurt anybody with my opinions.

Please read the old discussion here:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/russians-italy-20-years-after-389289.html
 

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1) they are not totally made in Russia
2) they have original Soviet components
3) they were sold by the official Italian Raketa distributor in the late '80s
4) dials were not originally designed by the factory; they were (more probably) made in Russia under Italian design, or totally made in Italy. More or less, same story of the Vostok chronographs.
5) as final conclusion, being assembled for/by the official distributor, they are "spurious" products, but not fakes.

So you consider them as "special edition"? Are they considered to be collectable? I bought 2 watches recently (nº5 and 6).
Damn it!!!!!!!!!!! I hope I wasn`t fooled!!!
 

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[1) they are not totally made in Russia
2) they have original Soviet components
3) they were sold by the official Italian Raketa distributor in the late '80s
4) dials were not originally designed by the factory; they were (more probably) made in Russia under Italian design, or totally made in Italy. More or less, same story of the Vostok chronographs.
5) as final conclusion, being assembled for/by the official distributor, they are "spurious" products, but not fakes. ]

I think Michele opinion may be right, because I have bought the n.6 about twelve years ago in a shop in Italy as an old stock.

Ciao, Nene
 
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