PMMM, (Poor Man's Marine Master). The term used to described modded SKX's to emulate MM300s. Sorry, I should've maybe clarified that.
I've got $500 to blow, Sumo or PMMM?
I bet this has been beat to death and I apologize to add yet another thread to this topic but I really appreciate anyone who's willing to give me some advice.
I did do a search and spent a lot of time in some of the other threads and haven't seen this exact topic covered. Please direct me if it has!
I love the look of the MM300. I will never be able to afford a MM300. I have $500 to spend. So I'm looking at either getting an SKX that's been modded, or the Sumo. These are the two watches I feel will give me the most MM300 vibe on a budget, I've looked at the Tunas and that case shape is not for me, sorry. I love the Sumo's dial and I'm blown away that such a great dial could be had at that price, however the bezel, flat case shape and long lug size looks like it might be a turn off for me, but I can't know for sure because no dealer by me carries it, and it's impossible to get a sense of how it really looks on an arm because all the pics of it online are taken 4 inches away from the dial. (My wrist is 7.5" so I think I could pull it off, but just aesthetic wise it might be too much watch for my taste).
Whereas I love the case and shape of the SKX007, but not so much the dial. So a PMMM seems like the right choice, except with a PMMM I'm subject to the expertise of whoever did the mods which could've been done poorly and I'm likely going to lose the WR, am I right in assuming that?
So my questions are:
1. Are PMMMs I find on ebay and other places a safe bet or are there sketchy mods out there?
2. Is there a place online that sells professionally constructed PMMMs?
3. Does an SKX171 that's been modded lose it's 200m water resistance?
4. Can any Sumo owners here post pics of themselves with their Sumo's, but panned back a bit to see how it looks in relationship to a full arm/torso/body? My kingdom for a video of someone standing 20 feet away from the camera wearing a Sumo and just rotating around.
Appreciate the help!
I did do a search and spent a lot of time in some of the other threads and haven't seen this exact topic covered. Please direct me if it has!
I love the look of the MM300. I will never be able to afford a MM300. I have $500 to spend. So I'm looking at either getting an SKX that's been modded, or the Sumo. These are the two watches I feel will give me the most MM300 vibe on a budget, I've looked at the Tunas and that case shape is not for me, sorry. I love the Sumo's dial and I'm blown away that such a great dial could be had at that price, however the bezel, flat case shape and long lug size looks like it might be a turn off for me, but I can't know for sure because no dealer by me carries it, and it's impossible to get a sense of how it really looks on an arm because all the pics of it online are taken 4 inches away from the dial. (My wrist is 7.5" so I think I could pull it off, but just aesthetic wise it might be too much watch for my taste).
Whereas I love the case and shape of the SKX007, but not so much the dial. So a PMMM seems like the right choice, except with a PMMM I'm subject to the expertise of whoever did the mods which could've been done poorly and I'm likely going to lose the WR, am I right in assuming that?
So my questions are:
1. Are PMMMs I find on ebay and other places a safe bet or are there sketchy mods out there?
2. Is there a place online that sells professionally constructed PMMMs?
3. Does an SKX171 that's been modded lose it's 200m water resistance?
4. Can any Sumo owners here post pics of themselves with their Sumo's, but panned back a bit to see how it looks in relationship to a full arm/torso/body? My kingdom for a video of someone standing 20 feet away from the camera wearing a Sumo and just rotating around.
Appreciate the help!
21 - 40 of 77 Posts
If it was my money it would be on the Sumo all day long.
My suggestion is to buy a gently pre owned Sumo so you can try it out, you will easily make your money back on resale if you are not happy.
If you go the route of the SKX and purchase all the parts to do the mod it can be quite expensive if you are not doing the labor yourself. If after the build is finished and you don't like it be prepared to take a hit on resale, it's very hard to recover the cost on a modded watch.
My suggestion is to buy a gently pre owned Sumo so you can try it out, you will easily make your money back on resale if you are not happy.
If you go the route of the SKX and purchase all the parts to do the mod it can be quite expensive if you are not doing the labor yourself. If after the build is finished and you don't like it be prepared to take a hit on resale, it's very hard to recover the cost on a modded watch.
How bigs your wrist across the top from side to side Keith, i want to get your measurement so we can find out what lug to lug distance is ok?Thanks for all the replies guys. It sounds like everyone is pro Sumo. However, I'm wondering about purchasing a new SKX007 and then getting a Sumo dial and hands, and possibly the 61r5 movement and having a pro assemble it for me? After searching last night it seems a few people have done this. Can anyone speak to whether or not this is a simple mod for a professional watch builder?
View attachment 13632415
And how far is it all round your wrist.
EDIT, just saw it was 7.5'', thats a good size wrist, the sumo will look much better on you than a tiny SKX, ive a 7.2'' wrist and my skx gets no wrist time as its tiny and very unimpressive compared to the rest of my stable of seikos.
I really think youll be making the wrong decision on the skx, it will have no wrist presence on you and the sumo blows it out of the water in every area.
Be very careful of falling for the hype of the skx, its truely like a toy compared to most other seiko offerings in divers, its overrated and not the best entry level seiko, for a few bucks more you are at the turtle and sami level, they are much better watches.
Id ditch the idea of a skx here, go up to the sami, sumo, turtle level, youll thank me later.
And with a 7.5 wrist youd be mad to get the skx over the sumo, the sumos case is beautiful, its a stunning piece that leaves the skx for dead.
I own these watches so im not just shooting the breeze here, youll thank me later.
If you go the modded SKX route, you'll put more money into the watch than you would have if you had just bought the Sumo in the first place.Thanks for all the replies guys. It sounds like everyone is pro Sumo. However, I'm wondering about purchasing a new SKX007 and then getting a Sumo dial and hands, and possibly the 61r5 movement and having a pro assemble it for me? After searching last night it seems a few people have done this. Can anyone speak to whether or not this is a simple mod for a professional watch builder?
View attachment 13632415
For sure, and he will have a watch half as nice.If you go the modded SKX route, you'll put more money into the watch than you would have if you had just bought the Sumo in the first place.
Dont get me wrong, the SKX is an honest basic performer, no doubt a real iconic piece but once you dip your toes into what seiko has to offer a tier or two up, the SKX ends up feeling a bit cheap, its a very basic case and bezel.
First time i got one i opened the box and thought they'd sent the 013 it looked so small.
I see a lot of people recommend the SKX as a first seiko diver, im not in that camp.
A step up and we have drilled lugs, hand winding, better dials and applied markers, better lume, better bracelets, more substance and heft, better finishing, just better all round watches than a very basic SKX.
To mod a SKX adds up too as you say, parts, shipping and labour and we are up to $500-600 sometimes more.
Unless theres a love affair with the SKX its smarter to move up a level or two.
I'm also not a fan of the SKX. I had the black, the Pepsi and the yellow. The non hacking, non hand winding movement drove me nuts.For sure, and he will have a watch half as nice.
Dont get me wrong, the SKX is an honest basic performer, no doubt a real iconic piece but once you dip your toes into what seiko has to offer a tier or two up, the SKX ends up feeling a bit cheap, its a very basic case and bezel.
First time i got one i opened the box and thought they'd sent the 013 it looked so small.
I see a lot of people recommend the SKX as a first seiko diver, im not in that camp.
A step up and we have drilled lugs, hand winding, better dials and applied markers, better lume, better bracelets, more substance and heft, better finishing, just better all round watches than a very basic SKX.
To mod a SKX adds up too as you say, parts, shipping and labour and we are up to $500-600 sometimes more.
Unless theres a love affair with the SKX its smarter to move up a level or two.
I agree 100%. I purchased a SKX after I had owned a Sumo because everyone raved about the SKX. I was extremely disappointed by what I had purchased. It might have been "okay" when I was in my teens or early 20s and when I had no ecperience with Seiko's mid-level offerings but not after experiencing the Sumo and Shogun. I feel the same about Seiko 5s. For a couple hundred dollars more than the SKX lineup you really do move up a lot in quality and performance.I'm also not a fan of the SKX. I had the black, the Pepsi and the yellow. The non hacking, non hand winding movement drove me nuts.
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I would agree this. I found some in a watch market in Seoul after already owning several higher quality Seikos, and I just could not see the appeal.I agree 100%. I purchased a SKX after I had owned a Sumo because everyone raved about the SKX. I was extremely disappointed by what I had purchased. It might have been "okay" when I was in my teens or early 20s and when I had no ecperience with Seiko's mid-level offerings but not after experiencing the Sumo and Shogun. I feel the same about Seiko 5s. For a couple hundred dollars more than the SKX lineup you really do move up a lot in quality and performance.I'm also not a fan of the SKX. I had the black, the Pepsi and the yellow. The non hacking, non hand winding movement drove me nuts.
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So the options are a Sumo, one of the best watches at that price point, a watch with a lot of "bang" for the money.
Or a mod that comes a bit too close to a fake?
Is there really a choice? With the Sumo you get the better watch with a better movement, a watch that hasn't been messed with, with guaranteed water resistance rating, and an all original design.
Or a mod that comes a bit too close to a fake?
Is there really a choice? With the Sumo you get the better watch with a better movement, a watch that hasn't been messed with, with guaranteed water resistance rating, and an all original design.
All this pro Sumo talk is definitely giving me pause. I think I'm just drawn to the SKX's more "classic" diver proportions. I know it doesn't compare to the Sumo on paper. But 99% of the time I see pics of the Sumo on a wrist it looks mammoth, whereas the SKX's case and bezel always seems to look "right" in every pic. Someone here mentioned getting a Sumo first, and flipping it if it's not to my liking. That's not a bad idea.
A lot of the pics you see of the SKX, like the one you put in this thread are guys with 6.5'' wrists, pics are misleading.All this pro Sumo talk is definitely giving me pause. I think I'm just drawn to the SKX's more "classic" diver proportions. I know it doesn't compare to the Sumo on paper. But 99% of the time I see pics of the Sumo on a wrist it looks mammoth, whereas the SKX's case and bezel always seems to look "right" in every pic. Someone here mentioned getting a Sumo first, and flipping it if it's not to my liking. That's not a bad idea.
What about the turtle, samurai or SPB053?
If you are set on the SKX you might as well get it then, just remember it wears a lot smaller than its 42mm.
This is the truth right here. its an ok little watch but in comparison with some of seikos other offerings it really fails to compare.I agree 100%. I purchased a SKX after I had owned a Sumo because everyone raved about the SKX. I was extremely disappointed by what I had purchased. It might have been "okay" when I was in my teens or early 20s and when I had no ecperience with Seiko's mid-level offerings but not after experiencing the Sumo and Shogun. I feel the same about Seiko 5s. For a couple hundred dollars more than the SKX lineup you really do move up a lot in quality and performance.
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All this talk against the SKX... I think it is unfair. You can't compare a 200€ watch to a 600€ watch on equal terms. Of course the Sumo is better! But it is much pricier than the SKX too so it is expected to be better! Is it prettier though? Is its design more iconic? I don't think so. In my opinion the SKX is the best proportioned diver in the current regular Seiko lineup.
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You can pick up a sumo for $300us, not 600 pounds.All this talk against the SKX... I think it is unfair. You can't compare a 200€ watch to a 600€ watch on equal terms. Of course the Sumo is better! But it is much pricier than the SKX too so it is expected to be better! Is it prettier though? Is its design more iconic? I don't think so. In my opinion the SKX is the best proportioned diver in the current regular Seiko lineup.
View attachment 13633867
Its not just a small step up for that money either, its a huge step up.
Just my opinion that the sumo is a lot prettier, 3 times better finished, it just feels like a lot of substance in the hand the sumo, in comparison the SKX feels a bit toyish.
Ive no doubt youd feel exactly the same if you had the sumo in hand regardless of if you like its design more or less.
I've never owned an SKX and after handling some, probably never will. Nothing really bad about them, they just don't do it for me as much as other Seiko divers higher up the chain (Turtle, Monster, Sumo, SPB051 - all of which I've owned).
However, everyone has their own opinions and preferences. Based on your post below, I think you *need* to get an SKX to get it out of your system, regardless of whether you end up keeping it or not.
My advice: Buy the SKX, wear it in its original (and easily re-sellable) state for as long as you need to make up your own mind and decide on the next step.
However, everyone has their own opinions and preferences. Based on your post below, I think you *need* to get an SKX to get it out of your system, regardless of whether you end up keeping it or not.
My advice: Buy the SKX, wear it in its original (and easily re-sellable) state for as long as you need to make up your own mind and decide on the next step.
Sent from my Pixel XL using TapatalkAll this pro Sumo talk is definitely giving me pause. I think I'm just drawn to the SKX's more "classic" diver proportions. I know it doesn't compare to the Sumo on paper. But 99% of the time I see pics of the Sumo on a wrist it looks mammoth, whereas the SKX's case and bezel always seems to look "right" in every pic. Someone here mentioned getting a Sumo first, and flipping it if it's not to my liking. That's not a bad idea.
Here in Greece, the cheapest new Sumo I can find is 600€+. The cheapest SKX is 200€+.I am talking brand new from an AD. So, we are talking three times the price of an SKX. This is not a small step up in price, so it should be much better in quality! I am sure one can find both watches cheaper, but even at 150$ for an SKX and 350$for a Sumo, it still is more than double the money!You can pick up a sumo for $300us, not 600 pounds.
Its not just a small step up for that money either, its a huge step up.
Just my opinion that the sumo is a lot prettier, 3 times better finished, it just feels like a lot of substance in the hand the sumo, in comparison the SKX feels a bit toyish.
Ive no doubt youd feel exactly the same if you had the sumo in hand regardless of if you like its design more or less.
The only other Seiko that I owned is an Orange Monster 2nd gen. It is considered a better watch than the SKX, better movement and all, but in my opinion the SKX is much more balanced, pretty, and it has that Seiko DNA we all love so much. Some might feel it's cheap, I think it's great for what it is, a watch that I can wear 24/7 without worrying about anything! If money was not an issue maybe I would go for an SLA017, but for now my SKX is more than enough!
As to answer what the OP asked, go for whichever you like, just make sure to buy OEM, if you want to go after market, do it yourself!
Yes but theres the internet which connects Greece with the rest of the world, you can be shopping anywhere in the world in the next 5 minutes, not sure why youre buying in Greece?Here in Greece, the cheapest new Sumo I can find is 600€+. The cheapest SKX is 200€+.I am talking brand new from an AD. So, we are talking three times the price of an SKX. This is not a small step up in price, so it should be much better in quality! I am sure one can find both watches cheaper, but even at 150$ for an SKX and 350$for a Sumo, it still is more than double the money!
The only other Seiko that I owned is an Orange Monster 2nd gen. It is considered a better watch than the SKX, better movement and all, but in my opinion the SKX is much more balanced, pretty, and it has that Seiko DNA we all love so much. Some might feel it's cheap, I think it's great for what it is, a watch that I can wear 24/7 without worrying about anything! If money was not an issue maybe I would go for an SLA017, but for now my SKX is more than enough!
As to answer what the OP asked, go for whichever you like, just make sure to buy OEM, if you want to go after market, do it yourself!
The monster isnt much better than the SKX to be fair, once you step up a level or two youll know exactly what im talking about.
Im giving advice as an owner of both watches.
I'm OCD with dial, chapter ring and bezel alignment. I also want to check that the hands and day/date window all line up perfectly. So, as you understand, the only way to go is a physical shop, so I can inspect the watch in the metal before buying!Yes but theres the internet which connects Greece with the rest of the world, you can be shopping anywhere in the world in the next 5 minutes, not sure why youre buying in Greece?
The monster isnt much better than the SKX to be fair, once you step up a level or two youll know exactly what im talking about.
Im giving advice as an owner of both watches.
he might just be trying to be a smartass, lol, i think he's trying to 'correct' the term, but i don't think most people doing a mod really care it would be 'Marinemaster' and not 'Marine Master'...PMMM, (Poor Man's Marine Master). The term used to described modded SKX's to emulate MM300s. Sorry, I should've maybe clarified that.
Get the store to send you a pic of the watch they are sending.I'm OCD with dial, chapter ring and bezel alignment. I also want to check that the hands and day/date window all line up perfectly. So, as you understand, the only way to go is a physical shop, so I can inspect the watch in the metal before buying!
Understand you wanting good alignment but there are ways of getting better aligned ones, like send a note when buying and check pics.
1/4 of a mm isnt worth double the price of the watch.
I understand it can be frustrating though, seiko need to up their QC game.
21 - 40 of 77 Posts
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