Probably you are right, but I wouldn't trust a picture, I want to handle the thing before I put my money on the table, I'm not saying this is the right way, it's just me!
I've got $500 to blow, Sumo or PMMM?
I bet this has been beat to death and I apologize to add yet another thread to this topic but I really appreciate anyone who's willing to give me some advice.
I did do a search and spent a lot of time in some of the other threads and haven't seen this exact topic covered. Please direct me if it has!
I love the look of the MM300. I will never be able to afford a MM300. I have $500 to spend. So I'm looking at either getting an SKX that's been modded, or the Sumo. These are the two watches I feel will give me the most MM300 vibe on a budget, I've looked at the Tunas and that case shape is not for me, sorry. I love the Sumo's dial and I'm blown away that such a great dial could be had at that price, however the bezel, flat case shape and long lug size looks like it might be a turn off for me, but I can't know for sure because no dealer by me carries it, and it's impossible to get a sense of how it really looks on an arm because all the pics of it online are taken 4 inches away from the dial. (My wrist is 7.5" so I think I could pull it off, but just aesthetic wise it might be too much watch for my taste).
Whereas I love the case and shape of the SKX007, but not so much the dial. So a PMMM seems like the right choice, except with a PMMM I'm subject to the expertise of whoever did the mods which could've been done poorly and I'm likely going to lose the WR, am I right in assuming that?
So my questions are:
1. Are PMMMs I find on ebay and other places a safe bet or are there sketchy mods out there?
2. Is there a place online that sells professionally constructed PMMMs?
3. Does an SKX171 that's been modded lose it's 200m water resistance?
4. Can any Sumo owners here post pics of themselves with their Sumo's, but panned back a bit to see how it looks in relationship to a full arm/torso/body? My kingdom for a video of someone standing 20 feet away from the camera wearing a Sumo and just rotating around.
Appreciate the help!
I did do a search and spent a lot of time in some of the other threads and haven't seen this exact topic covered. Please direct me if it has!
I love the look of the MM300. I will never be able to afford a MM300. I have $500 to spend. So I'm looking at either getting an SKX that's been modded, or the Sumo. These are the two watches I feel will give me the most MM300 vibe on a budget, I've looked at the Tunas and that case shape is not for me, sorry. I love the Sumo's dial and I'm blown away that such a great dial could be had at that price, however the bezel, flat case shape and long lug size looks like it might be a turn off for me, but I can't know for sure because no dealer by me carries it, and it's impossible to get a sense of how it really looks on an arm because all the pics of it online are taken 4 inches away from the dial. (My wrist is 7.5" so I think I could pull it off, but just aesthetic wise it might be too much watch for my taste).
Whereas I love the case and shape of the SKX007, but not so much the dial. So a PMMM seems like the right choice, except with a PMMM I'm subject to the expertise of whoever did the mods which could've been done poorly and I'm likely going to lose the WR, am I right in assuming that?
So my questions are:
1. Are PMMMs I find on ebay and other places a safe bet or are there sketchy mods out there?
2. Is there a place online that sells professionally constructed PMMMs?
3. Does an SKX171 that's been modded lose it's 200m water resistance?
4. Can any Sumo owners here post pics of themselves with their Sumo's, but panned back a bit to see how it looks in relationship to a full arm/torso/body? My kingdom for a video of someone standing 20 feet away from the camera wearing a Sumo and just rotating around.
Appreciate the help!
41 - 60 of 77 Posts
I don't have a Sumo, but i can say that the SKX is my most comfortable diver. I can wear larger watches, but just because i can doesn't mean i have to.All this pro Sumo talk is definitely giving me pause. I think I'm just drawn to the SKX's more "classic" diver proportions. I know it doesn't compare to the Sumo on paper. But 99% of the time I see pics of the Sumo on a wrist it looks mammoth, whereas the SKX's case and bezel always seems to look "right" in every pic.
Aside from comfort, i'm a fan of the SKX's design. No applied indices means no applied indices falling off, and the bezel insert looks better than the Sumo's.
I recently picked up a new sumo with a 1-year seiko warranty in the EU for 365 euro, so I can confirm you don't need to pay anywhere close to 600. I also own an SKX and the quality is worlds above. Even something you can't see from pics, like the bezel action is much tighter.Here in Greece, the cheapest new Sumo I can find is 600€+. The cheapest SKX is 200€+.I am talking brand new from an AD. So, we are talking three times the price of an SKX. This is not a small step up in price, so it should be much better in quality! I am sure one can find both watches cheaper, but even at 150$ for an SKX and 350$for a Sumo, it still is more than double the money!
The only other Seiko that I owned is an Orange Monster 2nd gen. It is considered a better watch than the SKX, better movement and all, but in my opinion the SKX is much more balanced, pretty, and it has that Seiko DNA we all love so much. Some might feel it's cheap, I think it's great for what it is, a watch that I can wear 24/7 without worrying about anything! If money was not an issue maybe I would go for an SLA017, but for now my SKX is more than enough!
As to answer what the OP asked, go for whichever you like, just make sure to buy OEM, if you want to go after market, do it yourself!
I don't think many people are talking against the SKX. The SKX is a fine watch, just not a watch worth $500, which is what the OP wants to spend since he wants to get a modded one. For that amount, the Sumo is the obvious choice, even if it wears a bit larger.All this talk against the SKX... I think it is unfair. You can't compare a 200€ watch to a 600€ watch on equal terms. Of course the Sumo is better! But it is much pricier than the SKX too so it is expected to be better! Is it prettier though? Is its design more iconic? I don't think so. In my opinion the SKX is the best proportioned diver in the current regular Seiko lineup.
Shopping around it looks like I can score a new Sumo and a 007 (unmodded) for around $600. I think I'll do that. I can always mod the 007 later. I feel good about this decision.
Keith, I'm just trying to help and give you a little more info, and definitely NOT bashing any of the guys above, as will be shown further down my post
If you go to watch recon dot com you will find modded skx's that resemble, or are called PMMM's, and they will usually be under your stated $500 price. Most likely they cost a lot more to build than their selling price because (as others have said) you 99% of the time always lose money when you mod a skx watch. I've had lots of skx's modded over the years by Noah, Jack, Duarte etc and know first hand that's how it works - for new guys you have to know this going into the process, and more importantly accept it.
With all that being said, I agree with most of the comments from the other guys - for you, in this situation, a Sumo would be a more sensible purchase. And secondarily it will be an easy flip without taking much of a hit if you do let it go
Good luck with your decision, and welcome to WUS (based on your post count)
If you go to watch recon dot com you will find modded skx's that resemble, or are called PMMM's, and they will usually be under your stated $500 price. Most likely they cost a lot more to build than their selling price because (as others have said) you 99% of the time always lose money when you mod a skx watch. I've had lots of skx's modded over the years by Noah, Jack, Duarte etc and know first hand that's how it works - for new guys you have to know this going into the process, and more importantly accept it.
With all that being said, I agree with most of the comments from the other guys - for you, in this situation, a Sumo would be a more sensible purchase. And secondarily it will be an easy flip without taking much of a hit if you do let it go
Good luck with your decision, and welcome to WUS (based on your post count)
Hey thanks for the link and advice!
I’m getting old I guess. What the hell is a PMMM?
"Poor Man's Marine Master"
Keith, I like your idea to by both and see for yourself. I posted the best distance pics I could find of my old sumo on my 7.25" wrist. I love the quality and design of the Sumo, I had to sell a few watches for financial reasons and miss my sumo the most. I agree the SKX wears a bit better, but the look and quality make the added size of the Sumo worth while, it does feel like a higher quality piece. The SKX is at a price point where as long as you like the look, can be a great work free GADA watch with out having to worry about it too much. And if you do break it, there is your opportunity to mod and upgrade. My sKX is 12 years old and runs slow and will need a service. Thinking of upgrading the movement to NH36 and adding a sapphire to give it a new look and feel.
I have an SKX and have never really felt like it felt cheap, but because it is relatively cheap, I don't worry about it much; I just wear it and love it. I want to love the Sumo... I love the hands but can't get passed the blobby looking text choice on the bezel. That alone would be my reason to not buy a Sumo, which is a bit of a shame really.
Was just doing that myself. The more you learn...Am I the only person who had to Google PMMM after reading this thread?
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By itself the SKX doesnt feel cheap but when we start making comparisons to watches like the sumo it just feels like it lacks a bit substance and finish.I have an SKX and have never really felt like it felt cheap, but because it is relatively cheap, I don't worry about it much; I just wear it and love it. I want to love the Sumo... I love the hands but can't get passed the blobby looking text choice on the bezel. That alone would be my reason to not buy a Sumo, which is a bit of a shame really.
If you really like the SKX dont buy a sumo lol, you might end up not loving the skx as much.
Confirmed and unapologetic divewatchaholic here. Have SBDC031 and SBDC033 (black & blue) and several SKX so will add my two cents. Have not read the entire thread so hope my comments are not too repetitive.
I have 7.25" wrists and find the Sumo to be very manageable. Setting aside the weight, it is perhaps one of my most comfortable divers to wear. Seiko is known for their case work and the Sumo is an outstanding example. Seiko didn't just create another diver but focused upon creating a stylistic statement. There are subtle elements that are easy to overlook in product photos but when held in hand, you begin to appreciate. Such as the continuous arc / curve of the case from lug to lug. A simple execution but gives the watch style. One that I especially like is how the lugs slant inward. The bracelet is also contoured to follow this line which improves the purchase of the bezel. The inward sloping lugs combined with the previously mentioned lug-to-lug curve creates the impression the watch is flatter and more slender, a real feat. The dial face and hands are an excellent match. Bezel insert is OK. Weakest element is the standard bracelet. You should probably plan on spending another $100 for a replacement. Put both of mine on president style and call it a day.
Not a lot that I can add that hasn't already been said about the SKX. There is a reason why this watch is considered a classic. It looks good on just about everyone. And, something that is overlooked, it has that rare ability that adding a nice bracelet just makes it better, often more than the $$ spent. Let me explain, with some watches you can spend money for a nice bracelet and the watch still is lacking or looks tawdry, kinda like when Chevy used to put a 396 V8 in a Nova....yeah, you can do it but why? In contrast, you can put a $75 - $100 bracelet on an SKX and it looks like a $300 - $400 watch. Not many watches can pull that off.
Just to throw a wrench in this discussion, but if you are up for spending $500 or so, I think you (and everyone) should also consider the new Orient Triton. Incredible quality for under $400. IMO, definitely the equal of the Sumo.
I have 7.25" wrists and find the Sumo to be very manageable. Setting aside the weight, it is perhaps one of my most comfortable divers to wear. Seiko is known for their case work and the Sumo is an outstanding example. Seiko didn't just create another diver but focused upon creating a stylistic statement. There are subtle elements that are easy to overlook in product photos but when held in hand, you begin to appreciate. Such as the continuous arc / curve of the case from lug to lug. A simple execution but gives the watch style. One that I especially like is how the lugs slant inward. The bracelet is also contoured to follow this line which improves the purchase of the bezel. The inward sloping lugs combined with the previously mentioned lug-to-lug curve creates the impression the watch is flatter and more slender, a real feat. The dial face and hands are an excellent match. Bezel insert is OK. Weakest element is the standard bracelet. You should probably plan on spending another $100 for a replacement. Put both of mine on president style and call it a day.
Not a lot that I can add that hasn't already been said about the SKX. There is a reason why this watch is considered a classic. It looks good on just about everyone. And, something that is overlooked, it has that rare ability that adding a nice bracelet just makes it better, often more than the $$ spent. Let me explain, with some watches you can spend money for a nice bracelet and the watch still is lacking or looks tawdry, kinda like when Chevy used to put a 396 V8 in a Nova....yeah, you can do it but why? In contrast, you can put a $75 - $100 bracelet on an SKX and it looks like a $300 - $400 watch. Not many watches can pull that off.
Just to throw a wrench in this discussion, but if you are up for spending $500 or so, I think you (and everyone) should also consider the new Orient Triton. Incredible quality for under $400. IMO, definitely the equal of the Sumo.
Thanks for the insight guys. In true Seikoholic fashion I've decided to get both. It's only $100 above my original budget of $500 for the pair. And I can always have the 007 modded if I want to later. I have a Sarb033, SNKP23, and SNZG15, but these will be my first divers! Gonna be a great xmas this year!
Excellent decision!Thanks for the insight guys. In true Seikoholic fashion I've decided to get both. It's only $100 above my original budget of $500 for the pair. And I can always have the 007 modded if I want to later. I have a Sarb033, SNKP23, and SNZG15, but these will be my first divers! Gonna be a great xmas this year!
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So I really shouldn't be considering a MM300 then? hahaBy itself the SKX doesnt feel cheap but when we start making comparisons to watches like the sumo it just feels like it lacks a bit substance and finish.
If you really like the SKX dont buy a sumo lol, you might end up not loving the skx as much.
I should have been more specific though, I love the SKX for what it is and what it's worth knowing full well that there are other options that are miles ahead in fit and finish.
I appreciate the pics! The side view in particular is helpful getting a sense of it.View attachment 13635819 View attachment 13635821 View attachment 13635825
Keith, I like your idea to by both and see for yourself. I posted the best distance pics I could find of my old sumo on my 7.25" wrist. I love the quality and design of the Sumo, I had to sell a few watches for financial reasons and miss my sumo the most. I agree the SKX wears a bit better, but the look and quality make the added size of the Sumo worth while, it does feel like a higher quality piece. The SKX is at a price point where as long as you like the look, can be a great work free GADA watch with out having to worry about it too much. And if you do break it, there is your opportunity to mod and upgrade. My sKX is 12 years old and runs slow and will need a service. Thinking of upgrading the movement to NH36 and adding a sapphire to give it a new look and feel.
I'm getting old I guess. What the hell is a PMMM?
basically a watch "below" a MM, but modded in a styling to resemble some features of a MM: applied indices, hand sets, a MM dial, coin edge bezels... it's very tongue in cheek and no one would believe they are a real MM. some people draw a much finer line than others; some use actual MM dial and handsets to the ire of some and possible confusion of others."Poor Man's Marine Master"
people mod Sumos, Stargates, SKX's, and probably a couple others into PMMM's, with varying budgets to make them.
here's my current version, pretty simple:
3 changes to an SKX: japanese day wheel, yobokies second hand, 171 dial.
Agree 100%Excellent decision!Thanks for the insight guys. In true Seikoholic fashion I've decided to get both. It's only $100 above my original budget of $500 for the pair. And I can always have the 007 modded if I want to later. I have a Sarb033, SNKP23, and SNZG15, but these will be my first divers! Gonna be a great xmas this year!
All of us can give various advice, but it is you that has to be happy. There are some that are adamant that everything about the skx is the greatest thing ever. No amount of arguing will change their minds & the are others that don't share that opinion.
I am a fan of seiko so I just had to try them all. I either have or have had skx007, sumo, turtle, tuna, spb053, spb051. I like some better than others but the point is I have tried then all and kept what I like and sold the rest for a small loss. I am really happy that I have tried them all.
41 - 60 of 77 Posts
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