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I remember paying around $400 for a quartz Tuna as a gift for a buddy in 2008. Then he purchased an aftermarket sapphire crystal and had it installed for another $100. So $500 all in for a quartz Tuna 300m sbbn007 with an aftermarket sapphire crystal including labor to install about 10 years ago.

Out of curiosity I just price checked the new quartz 300m Tuna with sapphire crystal releasing this week... Just under $1500! WTF? Triple the price in a decade. I’m sorry but I don’t see prices being tripled in 12 years for the same item as justified.
The new Tuna is for all intents the exact SAME watch. The movement, case, etc are all the same as 10 years ago. I can’t believe where Seiko is going with their pricing now.

Last year I paid like $700 for a MM200 and a SBDC053 and this years new 62mas reissues are going for $1100-1500. There is nothing I can detect that is meaningfully different in manufacturing/finishing/etc from the watches I purchased last year to the new models to explain the 50-100% price increases since last years models. (And last years models were already expensive for what they are btw.)

And the new LX Spring Drive 300m divers models which are for all intents and purposes of manufacturing the same as a Spring Drive 600m GMT are priced $3000 more (about double) what the SD600m went for.

And discontinuing the SKX line for those overpriced Seiko 5 feiko divers too. So paying more $$ for less watch (Seiko 5 non iso 100m watches).

I’m sad to say but I’m just done with Seiko. I just don’t see how these prices are justified and don’t like where the company is going. $1000+ for 6R low beat movements based on the 7s26 and the same old quartz tunas from 10 years ago is a joke. I don’t see any value in what they are doing with the new watches and will be taking my $$ elsewhere from now on. I know they won’t miss me but I’ve always loved the brand and owned at least 50 of their watches, written articles on this forum about their dive lines, and been a fan for 20 years.

But with all that’s happened in the last year I am completely disenfranchised with the brand. Looking at these new prices and what’s offered by Seiko for the money I feel the value is now truly in the Swiss and Microbrand alternatives.

I used to say many times on this forum that in every price point Seiko represented the best value for the money but now they certainly do not, and I don’t see how any long time collector can feel good about the direction they are going.
 

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I remember paying around $400 for a quartz Tuna as a gift for a buddy in 2008. Then he purchased an aftermarket sapphire crystal and had it installed for another $100. So $500 all in for a quartz Tuna 300m sbbn007 with an aftermarket sapphire crystal including labor to install about 10 years ago.

Out of curiosity I just price checked the new quartz 300m Tuna with sapphire crystal releasing this week... Just under $1500! WTF? Triple the price in a decade. I’m sorry but I don’t see prices being tripled in 12 years for the same item as justified.
The new Tuna is for all intents the exact SAME watch. The movement, case, etc are all the same as 10 years ago. I can’t believe where Seiko is going with their pricing now.

Last year I paid like $700 for a MM200 and a SBDC053 and this years new 62mas reissues are going for $1100-1500. There is nothing I can detect that is meaningfully different in manufacturing/finishing/etc from the watches I purchased last year to the new models to explain the 50-100% price increases since last years models. (And last years models were already expensive for what they are btw.)

And the new LX Spring Drive 300m divers models which are for all intents and purposes of manufacturing the same as a Spring Drive 600m GMT are priced $3000 more (about double) what the SD600m went for.

And discontinuing the SKX line for those overpriced Seiko 5 feiko divers too. So paying more $$ for less watch (Seiko 5 non iso 100m watches).

I’m sad to say but I’m just done with Seiko. I just don’t see how these prices are justified and don’t like where the company is going. $1000+ for 6R low beat movements based on the 7s26 and the same old quartz tunas from 10 years ago is a joke. I don’t see any value in what they are doing with the new watches and will be taking my $$ elsewhere from now on. I know they won’t miss me but I’ve always loved the brand and owned at least 50 of their watches, written articles on this forum about their dive lines, and been a fan for 20 years.

But with all that’s happened in the last year I am completely disenfranchised with the brand. Looking at these new prices and what’s offered by Seiko for the money I feel the value is now truly in the Swiss and Microbrand alternatives.

I used to say many times on this forum that in every price point Seiko represented the best value for the money but now they certainly do not, and I don’t see how any long time collector can feel good about the direction they are going.
I just bought a new 62mas for retail spb149 and its definitely worth the price the case finishing with diashield coating new move dial finishing and bezel are way above the more entry level models, i think Seiko underpriced for do many years that a lot of us baulk at the new pricing model. In the case of the 62mas and the willard i had a look at too they are worth it at least

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There are not many things more stupid than comparing MSRP of a new product to massively discounted prices on a years old model, then blaming Seiko for the huge price difference. Prices have gone up yes, and they aren't worth how much more they're charging, but if you're going to compare them at least do it fairly. MM200s are around $1050 MSRP. Bit of a difference between that and $1100-$1500, and $700. The rest of this rant isn't worth reading to me when I see such silly and flawed comparisons solely made to make Seiko look as bad as possible.
 

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I haven't had as long an active history buying Seiko though my first piece was over four decades ago. Even so, I do hear what you're saying.
The comparison I make in my mind now as a relatively recent heavy plunger into Seiko is whether what they are delivering now a reasonable value in the marketplace. I feel it is, and so I'll continue to seek out new and interesting pieces. But I can do so because my particular mix of needs and values for Seiko goes reasonably well with developments. In a sense, I've never really lived through the "good ole days" and only have recent times to go by.
 

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The MM200 lists for $1000 and you admit that you only paid $700 for it. I have seen SBDCs on straps for $590. You can buy the older quartz Tunas sbbn033 that retail for $1300 for $900. The Seiko 5 divers that retail for $300 can be bought for under $140 from Macys on a cyber monday or a black friday deal. I know that, because I did. And got some macys back on top of it. MSRP is pretty meaningless when talking Seiko. Comparing a major brand, vertically integrated company, with history, with original designs, with in house movements to some fly by night micro company that steals designs and outsources its manufacturing to slave labor camps in communist China is a bit unfair. Maybe you should try Hamilton and Mido. They seem to have certain divers in the $500 range that offer similar specs.
 

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Which non iso are you referring to? Not all watches have to be divers. 100m is more than adequate for a diver for the vast majority of buyers. If it is a land,field watch it is great at.100m.
 

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I think Seiko still has a few value propositions, but would tend to agree that it seemed like a higher percentage of Seiko's were great "bang for buck" watches a decade ago. I also don't think that many people are paying MSRP for them.

What I'm growing to appreciate more and more about the brand, however, is their ability to offer universal appeal by having, quite literally, something for everyone. Brands without such massive catalogues have to try to make a handful of models universally appealing. After careful consideration of Swiss alternatives, I bought an LX. It's design is artistic and cohesive in a way that is simply impossible to match if your business model requires you to garner a huge (relatively speaking) market share with one watch.

I certainly can't list too many reasons why it should be so much more expensive than the 600m GMT beyond design, but that might speak to the 600m being one of those phenomenal bang for buck watches. The LX is well worth the cost of admission.

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Well I am a Seikoholic - I have more Seiko watches than all other makes put together
I have several MM's, premium SLA025, Turtles, Arnie, Seiko 5s, vintage etc etc

But...undoubtedly Seiko have pushed their prices up well above inflation
I don't think they are the bargain they have been at most price points they once were
I wished I'd bought a MM300 10 years ago when they first came on my radar and were available new (imported) for £1200-1500 depending on exchange rate/duty etc - they seem to have doubled in a few years, with just modest sapphire crystal to show for it

What disappoints me is QC on cheaper models (and some higher ones I've seen/owned under loup)
I love GS but they are now costed out of my comfort zone - especially as the resale really dives

I dont think their prices are justifiable
I recently bought a Smiths Vanguard PRS-32 - a quality homage to the Paul Newman Daytona - limited to 50pieces
It is stainless steel, sapphire front n rear, and uses the Seiko Instruments column wheel chrono NE88 is the export version of 8R28) -
it cost £765

Seiko recently released a 1000 piece 'limited edition' panda chrono (SRQ029J1) retailing at £3300 - it has essentially the same movement
8R48 (is the same as 8R28/NE88 with improved shockproofing) - with no more finish, polish, regulating than mine. The Seiko has Zaratsu polishing which is nice - diashield (which I dont like as a scratch cant be polished) - I am not sure what else it has? and it costs a staggering 4x more - for no more. Indeed, I think mine looks better

I know a small Micro like Timefactors doesnt have all the R&D, manufacturing overheads, distribution costs etc etc that Seiko has - but still - my watch with comparable materials and essentially the same movement at 23% the cost of the Seiko ??? makes me think




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Discussion Starter #9
There are not many things more stupid than comparing MSRP of a new product to massively discounted prices on a years old model, then blaming Seiko for the huge price difference. Prices have gone up yes, and they aren't worth how much more they're charging, but if you're going to compare them at least do it fairly. MM200s are around $1050 MSRP. Bit of a difference between that and $1100-$1500, and $700. The rest of this rant isn't worth reading to me when I see such silly and flawed comparisons solely made to make Seiko look as bad as possible.
This is what I’m taking about, and I never said a word about msrp. I’m sure as a Seiko guy who is familiar with the brand you know exactly what models and pricing I’m referring to but you don’t agree with me and are happy to pay increases prices with Seiko. You are the customer who they are banking on.

There is a $300 or roughly 30% price difference between these watches today on Seiya’s site. It’s easy to see where things have been and are headed with the brand...

 

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You're better off buying a San Martin or Heimdallr homage for much less money that's better quality than the Seiko Tuna and MM200.


The great John Holmes wears a digital watch and Ron Jeremy wears Crocs.
 

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or you can buy a cheaper Seiko and mod it, I bought a Samurai Save the Ocean for $300, added a lumed bezel and double domed sapphire, and even with the tools that keeps the watch ~$400

15375812
 

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I just bought a new 62mas for retail spb149 and its definitely worth the price the case finishing with diashield coating new move dial finishing and bezel are way above the more entry level models, i think Seiko underpriced for do many years that a lot of us baulk at the new pricing model. In the case of the 62mas and the willard i had a look at too they are worth it at least
I think they might be worth the asking price if they addressed the misalignment issues that continue to plague them, and they actually adjusted and regulated their 6R35 movement. For me, while I still might get the SPB143 because I'm able to get it for 30% off, I would probably end up returning the watch if I encounter any of the misalignment and other QC issues that people have been reporting.

I don't think Seiko was ever really underpriced, the dial finishing was nicer than average, but they were manufactured rather sloppily, and their mechanical movements are medicore. That was perhaps acceptable at their old asking price, but I think they're milking their loyal fans given that their manufacturing and movement precision has not appreciably improved in accordance with their asking price.
 

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This is what I’m taking about, and I never said a word about msrp. I’m sure as a Seiko guy who is familiar with the brand you know exactly what models and pricing I’m referring to but you don’t agree with me and are happy to pay increases prices with Seiko. You are the customer who they are banking on.

There is a $300 or roughly 30% price difference between these watches today on Seiya’s site. It’s easy to see where things have been and are headed with the brand...

I don't know how you work out I'm happy to pay their increased pricing when I literally just said and you quoted me saying "Prices have gone up yes, and they aren't worth how much more they're charging". I'm probably not going to buy any more Seikos either because of the quality issues at the prices they ask, I actually even said that a day or two ago in a post on here. And you compared the MSRP pricing of the new models to a heavily discounted older model:

Last year I paid like $700 for a MM200 and a SBDC053 and this years new 62mas reissues are going for $1100-1500. There is nothing I can detect that is meaningfully different in manufacturing/finishing/etc from the watches I purchased last year to the new models to explain the 50-100% price increases since last years models. (And last years models were already expensive for what they are btw.)
Those two Seikos in your screenshot are priced $1050 (left) and $1200 (right) by Seiko themselves. Not exactly a 50 -100% price difference is it. Like I said, they are charging too much, but if you're going to compare pricing do it properly. Getting pissed off with Seiko because somebody sells one of their older watches for well below retail, and it's a lot less than a new one at full price makes no sense. In a few years the new ones will cost $700 from resellers too. Seiya's pricing is Seiya's pricing, not Seiko's. Seiko set the price of the new model at $150 more than the "MM200". If you're not hapopy that Seiya decide to make it a 30% difference with their own pricing, then your problem is with Seiya in this case.
 

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I don't think that Seiko regulated the 4R36 or the 6R35 movement.
They don't. I'm simply saying at the price they're asking for the new models, they should be adjusting and regulating the 6R35 movements.
 

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I don't know how you work out I'm happy to pay their increased pricing when I literally just said and you quoted me saying "Prices have gone up yes, and they aren't worth how much more they're charging". I'm probably not going to buy any more Seikos either because of the quality issues at the prices they ask, I actually even said that a day or two ago in a post on here. And you compared the MSRP pricing of the new models to a heavily discounted older model:

Those two Seikos in your screenshot are priced $1050 (left) and $1200 (right) by Seiko themselves. Not exactly a 50 -100% price difference is it. Like I said, they are charging too much, but if you're going to compare pricing do it properly. Getting pissed off with Seiko because somebody sells one of their older watches for well below retail, and it's a lot less than a new one at full price makes no sense. In a few years the new ones will cost $700 from resellers too. Seiya's pricing is Seiya's pricing, not Seiko's. Seiko set the price of the new model at $150 more than the "MM200". If you're not hapopy that Seiya decide to make it a 30% difference with their own pricing, then your problem is with Seiya in this case.
For what it's worth, I can get the SPB143 for $840. I still find the value proposition a bit questionable at that price. If I win the Seiko lottery, and get one with excellent alignment, no QC faults, and good, consistent accuracy, I would probably be happy at that price. But, I've had pretty poor luck with the Seiko lottery for a while now. Again, as I said above, I think the current prices are okay if they delivered a higher level of consistency, but they don't quite seem to have that figured out.
 
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Yeah well that's the biggest problem isn't it. The guarantee of quality is basically just non-existent with them. Obviously the more you pay the lesser the chance of issues, but like I've said before, some of the issues you see on a 1k+ watch where you'd expect most of the money would be going into the quality of the exterior as it sure as ---- isn't going into the movement, is unacceptable.
 

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Yawn!!!!!

There is a word for this, it is called inflation. This means prices rise. 20 years ago, I could get a brand new car in the USA for $10,000 and that was with taxes, tags and other fees. Now you would be hard pressed to find a new car for under $20,000 with taxes and tags and fees. Prices go up.

In 1988 I could get a brand new Rolex Air King for about $1000 now an Air King costs over $6000 new

Also you are looking at MSRP. Any body that pays MSRP on a Seiko is a fool especially as most Seiko US ADs offer a 20% discount

So lets see

Suppose you want the new Seiko Tuna that is coming out this month. The model for the USA market is Model S23629 for MSRP of $1450

The MSRP for the Seiko SBBN033 Tuna (rubber strap model) is 120,000 Yen (about $1134 with the today rate). That means this new Tuna is about $316 more.

If the USA Seiko AD offers a 20% discount on this watch, that deducts $290 from the price and makes it $1160 before tax. The cheapest place I can find the SBBN033 Tuna is from Gnomon Watches for $910. This means that the new one from the AD after discount and before tax is $250 more then the old SBBN033. The difference might be less if you get whacked with customs fees on that overseas Tuna purchase.

I think the Sapphire crystal, new handset and warranty (for the USA Market) is well worth the price increase

That is actually less of a price increase then the SBBN033 was to the SBBN017.

As for the SKX007 and its perceived value price, you are looking at street price. They had an MSRP of $450 from a Seiko AD. The fact that you could once get them for $150 or $200 new out the door from a Gray Market Seller is irrelevant to Seiko prices, If you walked into a Seiko AD and wanted to buy a US market SKX diver (ether the SKX173 or SKXA35) you would see the MSRP is $450

The Seiko 5 Sport watches that look like the SKX diver has no influence in Seiko's choice to finally kill off the SKX divers and they are not the SKX replacement. Seiko killed them off because the SRP Turtle Divers replaced them (and are a better watch).
 

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Some clarification is in order. In 2005 when the MM600/sbdb001 was released it had a msrp $5400. I bought a brand new 16600 seadweller a couple years later for $6800 msrp at an AD. Comparatively, the MM600 was exceedingly expensive. It was literally more expensive than the Omega SMP 300, anything from Breitling and Tag and most others.

When you say the mm600 was only “$3000” - this didn’t happen until they changed the model to pure titanium, relabelled it sbdb011 with diashield, to reduce price, and then slashed the $4250 msrp of the sbdb011, for a fire sale to sell off old stock. They slashed prices to sell old stock to make way for the $6k LXs.

In 2004 when I bought my sbbn007 from Higutchi, it was $525. At the time both the Tuna and the MM600 were released, both were JDM and both had a small USA/EU customer base. Now, the whole world sees the bang-up value of high end Seikos and Seiko is adjusting price accordingly.

However, I too am growing tired if Seiko’s meteoric pricing strategy and which that they might show more value improvements - add new value to go with new prices - in their new models.
 

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Which non iso are you referring to? Not all watches have to be divers. 100m is more than adequate for a diver for the vast majority of buyers. If it is a land,field watch it is great at.100m.
100m diver watch? I don't think I've seen a brand that recommends a 100m watch for diving yet, but maybe I'm wrong.

Yawn!!!!!

There is a word for this, it is called inflation. This means prices rise. 20 years ago, I could get a brand new car in the USA for $10,000 and that was with taxes, tags and other fees. Now you would be hard pressed to find a new car for under $20,000 with taxes and tags and fees. Prices go up.

In 1988 I could get a brand new Rolex Air King for about $1000 now an Air King costs over $6000 new

Also you are looking at MSRP. Any body that pays MSRP on a Seiko is a fool especially as most Seiko US ADs offer a 20% discount
There's a way to communicate if you want people to listen mate, starting with "yawn!!!" and proceeding in a patronising tone probably isn't the best way of getting heard.

Inflation impacts everything sure. But Seiko is clearly pricing up their offering in recent years, I don't think anyone can reasonably deny they've made a conscious decision to change their pricing, this is not just inflation.

As for anyone buying a Seiko at MSRP being a 'fool', remember the majority of normal folk (aka not us) walk in to a shop, pick something they like and buy it. No different from buying shoes or a shirt for most people. We're in the minority.
 
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