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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everybody! I am very interested in the Seiko caliber 4500 from the '60s. It is a manual 36,000bph movement with hacking, no date or day, and 25 jewels. I think a King Seiko 45 would make a great business dress watch. I'd really like to see some decent pics of one, but I can't find any good posts with pics (unlike for many of the vintage calibers which are well covered).

If you have one of these, please post pics, or links to pics if you know where they are. Also, if you know anything about the movement and the watches, please share. Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
I just won one of these - it is a King Seiko 45-7000 (with the Seiko calibre 4500A):


(Seller's pic)


It wasn't cheap, even compared to the many 52xx and 56xx KS models getting about, but I went for this one because:
  • It is relatively rare
  • The combination of manual and 36,000 bph is unusual
  • I don't currently have a 36,000 bph piece
  • I've been looking for a classic, conservatively styled vintage business dress piece (prefer vintage as with a few knocks and scratches I don't have to baby it, and I like the rarity factor)
  • I want a semi-project watch I can have a bit of a play with
  • The 4500 seems to be something of a 'forgotten' calibre
So, a little pricey, but this 45-7000 ticked all my boxes. I will be reviewing this one once it's delivered, and hopefully consolidating the little information currently available online (if not really adding anything new! ;-)).

Strangely, it's on a bracelet (Sellers pics):





I haven't seen many Seikos from the era (this is a '69) with bracelets, so it is unlikely that this bracelet is original, but that would be awesome. Interestingly, the bracelet has solid links (apart from the endlinks) which is very unusual for most watches of the era (especially Seikos). The only other period solid link Seiko bracelet I am aware of is the fishbone from the 6139-7100 'Helmet' and 6138 bullheads.

I don't plan to mod the watch, but I would like to tidy it up a little. Get rid of some of the grime and marks from the nooks and crannies, polish the acrylic crystal, and straighten up those sad endlinks! The case does not appear to have been polished, and the edges seem reasonably well defined, so I intend to keep it that way. The dial and hands on this one look to be in very nice condition, so I am hoping that with a little careful tweaking I can make this into a tidy little business dress watch.

One of my favourite features of the King Seikos is the signed crowns. I don't know why, but I really dig the logo (seller's pic):



I wonder if I can de-gunk it a little? The casebacks are also beautiful, although this one is very worn down, and also gunky (seller's pic):



I will take a better pic when it arrives and hopefully somebody on here speaks Japanese and can translate the (extremely cool b-) b-) b-))characters on the back. I thoght these were Daini models, but is that a Suwa logo on the dial and caseback??? :-s

Finally the movement - the 4500A . This pic is from a different watch, I found it at http://nakahiro.parfait.ne.jp/moji2/45.html. If mine looks anywhere near as nice when I pop the back open I'll be one happy chappy:



The 4500A is the most basic model of the 45xx series, which also includes:

  • 4500A (45 King Seiko Chronometer)
  • 4502A (King Seiko Calendar)
  • 4502A (Grand Seiko Observatory Chronometer)
  • 4520A (Grand Seiko VFA)
  • 4522A (Grand Seiko Calendar)
  • 4582A (Grand Seiko Neuchatel Observatory Chronometer)
As far as I know, this is the family of calibres which, at the highest level, became some of the most accurate mechanical movements ever, and caused the Swiss to spit the dummy and ban Seiko from participating in the observatory chronometer competition. Not bad pedigree, I think you'll agree.

One last observation - I think the simple no-date dial is just perfect for this style of watch. And for a watch whcih will only be worn occasionally, it makes setting so much simpler. |>
 

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Jason: That's one cool watch.

Apologies that I can't give you any information, but I was in the bidding for that watch in the early stages, before getting priced out. It was before my Christmas money arrived; it has since, and been largely spent, but that's another story.

I am starting to collect handwind Seikos, and I've wanted a King Seiko for ages. . . so please post pictures and your impressions when the watch arrives.
 

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The watch looks awesome!!
I like wearing vintage watches. They have a lot of character.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
:oops: Sorry mate. I paid way too much for it, as I tend to do. I can't help it, some watches just speak to me. I usually can't afford the ones that do but once in a while I can. I'm intending to do a reasonably detailed review. I'll post some pics, and then once it's cleaned up post some more.

Jason: That's one cool watch.

Apologies that I can't give you any information, but I was in the bidding for that watch in the early stages, before getting priced out. It was before my Christmas money arrived; it has since, and been largely spent, but that's another story.

I am starting to collect handwind Seikos, and I've wanted a King Seiko for ages. . . so please post pictures and your impressions when the watch arrives.
 

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Really nice catch. :-!:-! The movement is gorgeous. Hope yours will look the same. Can't wait for the pics!
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
It's here! First off, the disappointments. The bracelet is not original, and the acrylic crystal has some light scratches. There is also a lot of gunk and marks on the watch, especially on the bracelet (inclusing some surficial corrosion on the bracelet), but I knew about that from the pics.

On the plus side, the bracelet appears to be period and is of high quality, with 7 rows of solid links. The clasp is pressed steel tat, as you would expect. The inside of the clasp is signed Merit, Bambi (ouch!), Stainless Steel. If you know anything about Merit brand bracelets give me a hoy!

The case design is timeless IMO, and perfectly proportioned. I'd probably rather a larger diamater (40 - 42 mm?), but it is comfortable and I really like the low profile. The hands and indices, polished steel with glossy jet black inlays are class, and the metallic cream dial with a kind of brushed starburst finish is gorgeous.

The seconds hand seems impossibly thin and fine, and is barely visible unless you consciously look for it. It is also smoooooth!

I left the best parts to last. The KS signed crown is perfect. Perfect size, perfect grip, and the KS logo is so much more mature than the cursive S used on so many 6r15 powered Seikos. And the caseback, with it's extensive Japanese text, typical Seiko model designation, serial no, and "Waterproof", and gold KS inlay (with Suwa symbol) is like nothing I've ever seen before.

In summary: this one's a keeper.

Review to follow...
 

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Nice watch Jason - very classy choice...
 

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That's a real nice watch you found!

I love the vintage Seiko dresswatches. They're just so classy and smooth. But I never could bring myself to buy a KS. I have bought too many vintage watches that were scrap in the end. So I'm being careful now.

You know you have to come up with some really nice photos to do justice to the beauty of this watch, right :-d ?

Thursday's coming fast...

Cheers,
Sebastian
 

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Hey jason,

Remember we last spoke abt a 45? Here's mine that got in last week. There's also a 5625 that came in the same time but no pics. Both are registering below -10sec variation per day out of the box and I am still very impressed given the age. Of course I have no doubt that it has been regulated before.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
WOW - stunning watch mate. Looks like new!

Is the movement clean?
 

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Hey Toby,

Did you manage to de-gunk yours and spruce it up a bit? I wouldn't mind seeing some pics.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Not really. I've been slack. I picked a few small dark gunky bits off of it, and gave it an extremely light polish (with a cloth only, not a polishing machine). I don't want to lose the edges, or the finish on the surfaces that I think were possibly brushed, even if that means keeping a few scratches here and there. So I don't really kow where to go from here...

Just putting it on a decent black leather strap lifted the look considerably.

I will have a crack at cleaning up the bracelet and tweaking the endlinks for a tighter, straighter fit one day.

OT - my hard drive crashed last thursday. I lost every single watch pic I had kept. :-(

I'll borrow my dad's G10 some time soon and try and take a few fresh, decent pics of the current collection.
 

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I picked up an inexpensive ultrasonic cleaner and was pleasantly surprised by the difference a couple of cycles make to an older case or bracelet. The other move I made was to pick up sand paper/poliching sheets in grits up to 9000. If you are patient and careful you can really get the cases looking good while maintaining the integrity of the lines.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I picked up an inexpensive ultrasonic cleaner and was pleasantly surprised by the difference a couple of cycles make to an older case or bracelet. The other move I made was to pick up sand paper/poliching sheets in grits up to 9000. If you are patient and careful you can really get the cases looking good while maintaining the integrity of the lines.
Nice one. I think an ultrasonic cleaner is on the horizon once I get a few other commitments out the way.

I also intend to try my hand at getting adecent brushed finish with sand paper, but not on this watch. I am too scared to spoil it, I love it so much.
 

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WOW - stunning watch mate. Looks like new!

Is the movement clean?
It looks very well taken care OR very well refurb by the previous Japan owner. The lines are very sharp too. Minor scratches here and there is ok given it is more that 40 years old so, no way am I complaining. Not planning to open it yet until necessary (although I was made to understand it is clean) since the caseback is in mint condition. Is within my acceptable limits for the age. We'll see how it goes as I would not want to let just any watchmaker to touch it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Not planning to open it yet until necessary (although I was made to understand it is clean) since the caseback is in mint condition.
You're a stronger man than me, my friend! I just couldn't resist the temptation to gawk at one of the most perfectly lovely movements I've ever seen.

:oops:
 

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You're a stronger man than me, my friend! I just couldn't resist the temptation to gawk at one of the most perfectly lovely movements I've ever seen.

:oops:
You are too kind mate. I have a higher fear level of what could happen if it lands on the wrong hands. And I definitely agree with you about the movement. It holds a few candles to the swiss brands. Not putting them down. Just that seikos are not as backwards as some may come to think.

I read you lost some pictures, I guess you would not have the movement pic of your 45. BTW, where do you get specs of all these old movements?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I read you lost some pictures, I guess you would not have the movement pic of your 45. BTW, where do you get specs of all these old movements?
No movement pics any more. I'll pop my watch open some time soon (when I borrow my dad's camera) and reel off a few happy snaps.

No idea about specs, I'm sorry.
 
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