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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

I own a couple of early chronographs including this HEUER - it uses a Landeron movement, metal dial from the 20s?



But my love on single button or 'mono-pusher' chronographs especially with a white enamel dial and the red centre 'tachymeter' scale - so I bough this:
1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

I can only find a tiny history of the company, and hope someone can identify the movement?

History: Mathez, Paul-Virgile, SA, Montres – SABINA, Tramelan-Dessus
Virgile Mathey registered the ‘VM’ trade mark in 1888. Offered high and good standard quality timepieces.

Here is the watch:













If anyone can help on movement - greatly appreciated

adam
 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Great looking old single button chrono Adam.
The watch looks to be in lovely condition, great dial, Is this a silver case?

Not sure about that 'Heuer' though, doesn't look right to my eye.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Great looking old single button chrono Adam.
The watch looks to be in lovely condition, great dial, Is this a silver case?

Not sure about that 'Heuer' though, doesn't look right to my eye.
Hi Radger thanks
The Sabina to me is 100% original except the crown.
The case is plated, and has been 'machined' plished I believe.

The HEUER is 100% correct (dial/movement/hands) - I had the case replated as it was in a very poor condition. I do not normally do anything like that, but the case was going green with mold.
It looks very good on


Re-Plated Case


BUT
The SABINA is just lovely.
Thanks again. Any idea of the movement?
 
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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

The HEUER is 100% correct (dial/movement/hands) - I had the case replated as it was in a very poor condition. I do not normally do anything like that, but the case was going green with mold.
It looks very good on
Re-Plated Case
BUT
The SABINA is just lovely.
Thanks again. Any idea of the movement?
I agree that the Sabina is lovely and is correct, the crown is a good match and correct style.
Can't place the movement but it's nice quality.

As to the Heuer, yes it looks very good on.

The chrono secs hand is far too long for this dial and obviously incorrect.
The dial looks an obvious repaint to me, it is not of character with the case or
style looking to modern.

The subdial indices are off centered and the diameter of these sub dials are too small for the recesses.

The print is poor, the Heuer logo looks heavy and incorrect with the lettering too high almost touching
the top of the cartouche.

The sub dial secs hand is too long for the dial as is the minute hand.
17 jewels antimagnetic printed on the dial, what's all that about?
I've never saw that printed on a Heuer purporting to be this vintage before, don't think I've ever saw that printed
on Heuer of any vintage.

The mistakes in the dial and hands which I've highlighted are not what you'ld expect of a genuine Heuer, what makes you think
it is 100% correct?

The movement doesn't seem to be marked Heuer, what about inside the caseback.
 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Very nice Adam,

Agree about the Heuer... the dial (from the pics) looks a little off... may just be the pics?

The Sabina looks stunning!

Movement? possible early Hanhart or Landeron? Reminded me of a Hanhart.... searching came up with this...



The right hand movement looks similar - what diameter is it?

again... very nice!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

I agree that the Sabina is lovely and is correct, the crown is a good match and correct style.
Can't place the movement but it's nice quality.

As to the Heuer, yes it looks very good on.

The chrono secs hand is far too long for this dial and obviously incorrect.
The dial looks an obvious repaint to me, it is not of character with the case or
style looking to modern.

The subdial indices are off centered and the diameter of these sub dials are too small for the recesses.

The print is poor, the Heuer logo looks heavy and incorrect with the lettering too high almost touching
the top of the cartouche.

The sub dial secs hand is too long for the dial as is the minute hand.
17 jewels antimagnetic printed on the dial, what's all that about?
I've never saw that printed on a Heuer purporting to be this vintage before, don't think I've ever saw that printed
on Heuer of any vintage.

The mistakes in the dial and hands which I've highlighted are not what you'ld expect of a genuine Heuer, what makes you think
it is 100% correct?

The movement doesn't seem to be marked Heuer, what about inside the caseback.
No, no markings anywhere.
Why do I think its genuine? Just my gut feel, and I have shown it to other really knowledgeable Horologists and they felt so too.
But no evidence at all.
I take all your points - and appreciate them - and I agree the dial may be a rework.
Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Very nice Adam,

Agree about the Heuer... the dial (from the pics) looks a little off... may just be the pics?

The Sabina looks stunning!

Movement? possible early Hanhart or Landeron? Reminded me of a Hanhart.... searching came up with this...



The right hand movement looks similar - what diameter is it?

again... very nice!
Hi Marc
Thanks your comments and research
I 'think' its a Landeron movement just because of the way Landeron 2 button pushers work - but just a simple guess.
There are differences between the Sabina movement and your picture, its close but not identical.
Will measure the movement and post back

I REALLY appreciate your efforts and comments.

Regards
 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

its close but not identical.
Hi Adam,

I agree... not identical, but similar! Info on these early Landeron Chronographs appear to be limited (from what I could find). But I have limited knowledge on early chronos anyway.

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Hi Adam,

I agree... not identical, but similar! Info on these early Landeron Chronographs appear to be limited (from what I could find). But I have limited knowledge on early chronos anyway.

Good luck!
Thanks me too, few seem to have a great knowledge on early chronos
Hopefully Roland will pass by

Thanks again
adam
 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

love the Sabina !
would say Landeron 3 ? (though it says 2 3 on the ebauche), is it 15.5 ligne ?


+1 on the Heuer, nice, but dial seems refinished to me
 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Two fantastic pieces, I really really think you have nice taste in vintage watches. I would actually go further and say that the 1920s Sabina is genuinely the nicest looking vintage chronograph I have ever seen.

As you may be aware I am looking eagerly for a chrono and have not got any luck so far. Congrats on the beautiful watches.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Hi
AND thankyou
Yes 15 Ligne is spot on
And holding the movement beside Landeron 3 it looks correct

Thanks again
a
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Two fantastic pieces, I really really think you have nice taste in vintage watches. I would actually go further and say that the 1920s Sabina is genuinely the nicest looking vintage chronograph I have ever seen.

As you may be aware I am looking eagerly for a chrono and have not got any luck so far. Congrats on the beautiful watches.
Thank you for the nice compliments.
Really thanks
adam
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Removed
Of topic picture of modern chrono
 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Is there a Landeron/Hahn 23?

Only as the movement says 23....
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Is there a Landeron/Hahn 23?

Only as the movement says 23....
And does "Hahn" mean anything ?
 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

No, no markings anywhere.
Why do I think its genuine? Just my gut feel, and I have shown it to other really knowledgeable Horologists and they felt so too.
But no evidence at all.
I take all your points - and appreciate them - and I agree the dial may be a rework.
Thanks

Hi Adam,

I'm sorry to put the dampers on your chronograph watch with the Heuer marked
dial. Believe me, I sincerely wish there was no doubt as to the authenticity
of your Heuer marked watch.

Readers probably think that I'm just a sour old goat bringing this watch into question...

But as you are a watch seller as well as a collector, you should understand that to
present a watch in a public forum and proclaim it as 100% authentic, then it will
attract scrutiny.

Because of your position in here as an expert horologist with many years of experience etc etc,
many readers will believe everything you tell them.

They will believe this to be a genuine Heuer, unquestionable because you say it is...100%.
The danger being that the forum is used, unwittingly or otherwise, to legitimize dubious watches
which might come up for sale or are researched using this forum.

Hopefuly you didn't get ripped to bad on the 'Heuer' I know the name attracts a large premium.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Hi Adam,

I'm sorry to put the dampers on your chronograph watch with the Heuer marked
dial. Believe me, I sincerely wish there was no doubt as to the authenticity
of your Heuer marked watch.

Readers probably think that I'm just a sour old goat bringing this watch into question...

But as you are a watch seller as well as a collector, you should understand that to
present a watch in a public forum and proclaim it as 100% authentic, then it will
attract scrutiny.

Because of your position in here as an expert horologist with many years of experience etc etc,
many readers will believe everything you tell them.

They will believe this to be a genuine Heuer, unquestionable because you say it is...100%.
The danger being that the forum is used, unwittingly or otherwise, to legitimize dubious watches
which might come up for sale or are researched using this forum.

Hopefuly you didn't get ripped to bad on the 'Heuer' I know the name attracts a large premium.
I agree ALL you say EXCEPT "EXPERT"
I NEVER allow anyone to call me "EXPERT"
If you can find that please post a link.

Yes I am a Horologist bur NEVER/NOT an "expert"
Please do NOT say I said that anywhere - INDEED I STRONGLY state I am NO 'expert'

And 'ripped off" - I NEVER buy to sell. I buy what I love. I therefore NEVER get ripped off.
That's an UNFAIR statement - I bought the HEUR cause I loved it - It cast me under $500 - ripped off. I think not?

I am ALWAYS happy to learn, to be corrected but NEVER to be called an expert.

I may not be an expert but I am neither an idiot.


Regards
a
 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

I agree ALL you say EXCEPT "EXPERT"
I NEVER allow anyone to call me '[email protected]
If you can find that please post a link

Yes I am a Horologist bur NEVER/NOT an "expert"
Please do NOT say I said that anywhere - INDEED I STRONGLY state I am NO 'expert'

Regards
a

"Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
and
"By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
Adam
Adam, I know you know a lot, and the internet is full of experts, you might as well
be one too.
 
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