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Discussion Starter #21
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Adam, I know you know a lot, and the internet is full of experts, you might as well
be one too.
Truly Radger - I am NOT.
My passion is HOROLOGT.
But I am NO expert
Philip Poniz is an EXPERT - MMe Cinette Robert and Marcus HARDy are expert.

Me? I am a novice - I NEVER stated more
I wanted to be GLADIATOR - but it was taken
So I chose HOROLOGIST - but NEVER expert.

You owe me an apology.

A
 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

The company was founded by Charles Hahn. In the old days (pre ca. 1900), a Swiss company had to be called after the owner, never mind what brand names it applied to its products. So, Zenith was originally Georges Favre-Jacot, Omega was Louis Brand, Valjoux was Reymond Freres - and Landeron was Charles Hahn. After this restriction was lifted, Hahn renamed the company after the place it was located (Le Landeron, Canton Neuenburg/Neuchatel).

Hartmut Richter
 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Truly Radger - I am NOT.
My passion is HOROLOGT.
But I am NO expert
Philip Poniz is an EXPERT - MMe Cinette Robert and Marcus HARDy are expert.

Me? I am a novice - I NEVER stated more
I wanted to be GLADIATOR - but it was taken
So I chose HOROLOGIST - but NEVER expert.

You owe me an apology.

A
LoL, ok, I apologise, you are no expert.

A Gladiator eh! a few centuries to late for the interview I suppose.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

The company was founded by Charles Hahn. In the old days (pre ca. 1900), a Swiss company had to be called after the owner, never mind what brand names it applied to its products. So, Zenith was originally Georges Favre-Jacot, Omega was Louis Brand, Valjoux was Reymond Freres - and Landeron was Charles Hahn. After this restriction was lifted, Hahn renamed the company after the place it was located (Le Landeron, Canton Neuenburg/Neuchatel).

Hartmut Richter
Thanks Hartmut
I never knew that - great info
appreciated
A
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Truly Radger - I am NOT.
My passion is HOROLOGT.
But I am NO expert
Philip Poniz is an EXPERT - MMe Cinette Robert and Marcus HARDy are expert.

Me? I am a novice - I NEVER stated more
I wanted to be GLADIATOR - but it was taken
So I chose HOROLOGIST - but NEVER expert.

You owe me an apology.

A
I should add
Carry Hurt and David Boettcher - BOTH experts (compared to me)
 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

I should add
Carry Hurt and David Boettcher - BOTH experts (compared to me)
OK Adam, you are adamant that you are not an expert, I accept that and once again
I apologise but I wasn't really calling you an expert, just pointing out that that is how you
would be perceived by many readers.

You know and have named many experts, were these the 'knowledgable horologists' who told
you that the Heuer was 100% authentic and correct?
 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Readers probably think that I'm just a sour old goat bringing this watch into question...

.
WUS vintage needs a 'sour old goat' to keep us on our toes and not be fooled even by the best redialing work out there. (though I agree-the Heuer is not even close to the 'finest' redials I have seen.)

What I am really interested in is the point where (and I am certain its a moving point depending on brand, rarity, year,etc) a good re-worked dial and an original dial in really bad shape becomes 'preferable' to serious collectors. I know the whole thing about 'taste' but seriously-who would spend $1000s on vintage watches and not at least want to know exactly wether they are wearing a re-dialed or original-even if it doesnt effect value that much. (and of course-in many-I would say most instances it definitely does impact on value)

So thanks for your contributions. I think even the OP acknowledged your points. I know from personal experience its a crappy thing to have to admit to ourselves sometimes when a spectacular piece we've acquired has a feature we have overlooked in our appreciation of all other factors. My favorite Omega Constellation has one of the best re-dials I have seen and it still is my 'favorite' looking dress watch but I remember well when Desmond proved to me exactly why it was a (very fine) re-dial. Its all part of the fun, I guess.

e.g.--( I think I saw a novice post a pic of a relatively rare guilloche black dial SM for $20 in a flea market pick-up and its 100% original. Oh well.)
 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

LoL, ok, I apologise, you are no expert.

A Gladiator eh! a few centuries to late for the interview I suppose.
Point one CUT OUT the word play with insults. We can disagree without being disagreeable.

Point two... don't any of you guys ever visit the TAGHeuer forum? If you really want informed comment on a Heuer, post it there. We have some informed folks there.

That said, I think the Heuer can not be authenticated. While a few movements which are known authentic have no Ed. Heuer & Co movement markings, they are very rare. However, I am assuming this is a 20's chronograph and that is the era where these movements existed. Thus you need to authenticate via the case or dial. The case has been reworked and does not provide any information that I see. So we go to the dial. It is, in my opinion, a redial. It tells us little.

It is a nice looking piece. But I doubt it is a real Heuer. Personally I would accept it as a gift but would not pay even a dollar for it. I dislike counterfeits far more than frankens. I see this as probably a counterfeit. In any case, I don't think one can say one way or the other with certainty.

I don't know the Heuer experts mentioned in this thread. They don't post in the TAGHeuer forum AFAIK. At least I don't recognize the names.... but I might recognize their icons! I'm awful on names.
 
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Discussion Starter #29
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Point taken on above. Thanks
Moving swiftly back on 'SABINA' topic.
The piece came with an 'acceptable' strap, but I wanted to fit something better, and I had a lovely strap in my stocks. I was so reluctant, with fixed lugs you must basically destroy the current strap, and fit the new one with glue.
Glue and I do not mix well, I usually get more on the crystal than I do the strap.
But I decided to go ahead - so I carefully removed the old strap, peeled back the leather on the new one, and patiently fitted it

Here are the results.







I think the RED strap brings up the dial nicely

Thanks everyones input on this and HEUER?
 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Hello Adam,


First of all, apologies for reviving an old (contentious) thread but for some reason I cannot send you a PM.

While researching a chronograph movement I have, I came across this post.


My movement looks similar the the one in your Heur (at least the shapes of the bridges is similar, if not the chronograph parts). I have been unable to identify it, there is nothing else similar on the internet. You mentioned yours is a Landeron, but there is nothing similar labelled landeron on Dr.Rannft's website. Have you been able to positively ID the movement? It would help if you have since mine is missing several important parts. Thanks in advance for the help.

Aditya



 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Hello, Aditya,

it's an early Hahn-(Landeron-) calibre, without any reasonable doubt.

For your reference:


Image by courtesy of Marlies Cermak, Blankenfelde/Dahlewitz, Germany

The tell-tale 5-posted column wheel says it all.

Yes, there are a lot of parts missing from the movement you show, and (by the looks of it) some others may have been misplaced. Note that the chronograph mechanisms were designed at Landeron, but built at Dubois-Dépraz who supplied them in kit form to Landeron where they completed the base calibers with them. Changes between models were never abrupt but there were long transitional periods during which parts for the earlier model were phased out and parts for the newer model were introduced. Thus, you may very well find a very early Hahn caliber (their very first chronograph calibers were, actually, without designation) which almost looks like a "2" or even "3".

The good news is, many parts are interchangeable (even more so on their later models), and even the older Landerons are easily obtainable.

Best,
Tomcat
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Hi
Tomcat already answered . I too rechecked and it is a Landeron caliber 27
 

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Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Adam - VERY nice watch the Sabina - i DO like it and would buy it - these white dials and detailed red tach markings really 'do it'.

I'm not sure how these early top line chronos like this link together as I think Tomcat made a point that there may possibly be some 'common ancestry' at the time in design ? Tomcat's 'exit watch' is broadly similar in style to me and there are early Longines and Eberhards that broadly 'fit' the style and markings.

Here is one on my phone I really like which is not dissimilar ?

Is there any way to link these various makers in style or era that has some commonality ? SDA




Sent from SDA's iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Not sure Scott.
I love mine because the dial is so easy to read spiral or so called "Snail Tachometer Scale" it is even clearer than the Eberhard you show, where like most it gets distorted by the 30 minute counter.

Its just a lovely watch, so much so, it lives in the safe!
Thanks your comments
a
 
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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Hello, Aditya,

it's an early Hahn-(Landeron-) calibre, without any reasonable doubt.

For your reference:


Image by courtesy of Marlies Cermak, Blankenfelde/Dahlewitz, Germany

The tell-tale 5-posted column wheel says it all.

Yes, there are a lot of parts missing from the movement you show, and (by the looks of it) some others may have been misplaced. Note that the chronograph mechanisms were designed at Landeron, but built at Dubois-Dépraz who supplied them in kit form to Landeron where they completed the base calibers with them. Changes between models were never abrupt but there were long transitional periods during which parts for the earlier model were phased out and parts for the newer model were introduced. Thus, you may very well find a very early Hahn caliber (their very first chronograph calibers were, actually, without designation) which almost looks like a "2" or even "3".

The good news is, many parts are interchangeable (even more so on their later models), and even the older Landerons are easily obtainable.

Best,
Tomcat
Thank you very much Tomcat. Your post has been very helpful! Of course, my movement is similar to the Heur in the original post, the picture you posted is similar to the sabina (notice the visible winding wheels on the sabina?).

Going with 'Hanhart' I have found one similar movement-

Ultra RARE Vintage Hanhart Monopusher Chronograph 1930 039 s Landeron Hahn | eBay

You did mention parts are readily available. Could you tell me where I should look? Thanks in advance.

Hi
Tomcat already answered . I too rechecked and it is a Landeron caliber 27
Thanks! would you be willing to share the source? There is nothing on Landeron 27 online.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Thank you very much Tomcat. Your post has been very helpful! Of course, my movement is similar to the Heur in the original post, the picture you posted is similar to the sabina (notice the visible winding wheels on the sabina?).

Going with 'Hanhart' I have found one similar movement-

Ultra RARE Vintage Hanhart Monopusher Chronograph 1930 039 s Landeron Hahn | eBay

You did mention parts are readily available. Could you tell me where I should look? Thanks in advance.



Thanks! would you be willing to share the source? There is nothing on Landeron 27 online.
Sorry I thougt I did
Chronograph wristwatches - To Stop Time. Gerd-R.Lang & Reinhardd Meis - Page 226
STOP PRESS "27" is NOT the caliber but illustration. Deeply sorry book is new to me, still learning it.

Sorry my confusion its Landeron Hahn Lever : dia 35mm, 15.5 (16) Lignes
A
 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Sorry I thougt I did
Chronograph wristwatches - To Stop Time. Gerd-R.Lang & Reinhardd Meis - Page 226
STOP PRESS "27" is NOT the caliber but illustration. Deeply sorry book is new to me, still learning it.

Sorry my confusion its Landeron Hahn Lever : dia 35mm, 15.5 (16) Lignes
A

Excellent, thank you very much!

A search for Landeron-Hahn threw this up (I assume it is from the same book)-



This is my movement, shape of bridges, chronograph parts etc. Notice how your coupling clutch goes around the fourth wheel (between the fourth wheel and the balance) while mine hugs the periphery of the movement? One obstacle surmounted, with a lot of help of course :).

Aditya
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Excellent, thank you very much!

A search for Landeron-Hahn threw this up (I assume it is from the same book)-



This is my movement, shape of bridges, chronograph parts etc. Notice how your coupling clutch goes around the fourth wheel (between the fourth wheel and the balance) while mine hugs the periphery of the movement? One obstacle surmounted, with a lot of help of course :).

Aditya
Yes same book.
But you need illustration No27, it is exactly correct.
Difference in spec is No25 is 15.5 lignes while No 27 is 16 Lignes.
And the bridges are correct in 27

If you can not find picture 27, I can scan it.
Adam
 

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Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

If you can not find picture 27, I can scan it.
Adam
Hello Adam,

I found picture 27 earlier in this thread. I have taken the liberty to do a comparison of our movements with the illustrations.

Here is your Sabina



And here is my movement



As you can see the coupling clutches are shaped differently in the two movements. Also the winding wheels are visible under the chronograph parts in the Sabina whereas they are under the bridge in mine.

By the way, the extreme diameter of my movement is 35.3mm. The next job is to find spares.....

Aditya

PS. Your Heur seems to have a twin pusher version of picture no.25
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

Got you now interesting.

Yes I was comparing to mine.
Regards
 
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