[ppaulusz]

Good luck, Hans!
The Boys already told you everything you have to know. The Longines caliber L.546 is in fact an ETA 252.611 Thetmoline caliber. The calibration is not difficult but care should be taken! First make sure you know what needs to be done and do one or two demo runs without touching the terminals. Then you can do the real thing by following the guide in the service manual to the letter!

 

[ppaulusz]

...Mine is the first I've ever seen, so I have no idea whether they were available on straps.

Every Conquest VHP from the first model in 1984 (dual-oscillator) to the last production series with perpetual calendar around 2002 had integrated metal bracelet (stainless steel or titanium).
From 2002 till 2006 the Flagship models were fitted with the VHP perpetual calendar movement and those ones were available with stainless steel bracelet or alternatively leather straps

 

[ppaulusz]

...I don't like doing it, but I like it that it can be done...

Exactly my sentiment!
Congratulations and let us know about the results!:-!
The need for external power supply makes it more cumbersome for the ones with 3V lithium battery.

 

[ppaulusz]

I doubt there is 'debounce' software. However, there is a clue in the statement that you need to make sure you leave the power on for 5 seconds after entering the correction count. It is quite possible the cpu does not 'strobe' the register (that is, does not record that a pulse took place) except every 5 seconds. So I would try making each pulse last longer with a bit more than 5 seconds between pulses...

There is no harm to wait 5 seconds between impulses but it is not necessary. Let's not forget that the ETA technical manual details the steps and includes all the info needed. It does not specify 5 seconds periods between impulses. Check the manual of the ETA 252.611's sibling, the ETA 252.511! These movements are almost identical. The only difference is the battery. The manual of the ETA 252.511 does not specify any period of time between impulses either.

 

[ppaulusz]

Very little progress so far after the second attempt.
The good news is that the watch is so far out of spec that its quickly obvious that the regulation hasn't worked...

OK, so the very little progress in fact means no progress at all. Since you have checked your power supply and it did work there is only one explanation left for the failed attempt: There is something wrong with your procedure.
Would you mind to describe your procedure in details (step by step)? Please include everything you do during the procedure so we can see where the problem is. I'm sure we can come up with the right solution.

 

[ppaulusz]

The 'little progress' is an example of British understatement. It is supposed to be funny.
Here are the steps. The more eyes the better.

1. Put watch in cradle. It locks it into place.
2. Open back.
3. Put crown in position 3.
4. Remove battery.
4. Connect needles to the '+' and '-' terminals. As in diagram on page 19. The cradle holds these needles into place. I still have two hands available.
5. Connect the battery (that came out) to wires that are soldered to these needles.
6. Confirm that the watch runs on the battery via the needles by pushing the crown into position 0. Once released, it flips back to position 1, the date ring turns, then ticks normally. It will not run until pushed into the 0 position.
7. Pull crown to position 3 again.
8. With one more needle connected to the '+' of the battery; tap the 'C-' patch 14 times.
9. Wait 5 seconds.
10. Push crown into position 0.
11. Release crown and let it settle into position 1.
12. The date ring turns. The second arm ticks.
13. Pull crown to position 3.
14. Remove needles.
15. Insert battery.
16. Close watch.
17. Push crown to position 0.
18. Release crown. It will settle in position 1.
19. The date ring turns. The second arm ticks.
20. Adjust time.
21. Check rate.

I don't really know what happens when the date ring turns. I am too slow with turning the cradle over.

Thanks guys!

Great stuff, Hans! Sorry, I tried to be funny too in the erlier post about the very little progress... ;-)
Anyhow, I think I know the solution, thanks to your very detailed post about your procedure.
It seems to me that steps 9 and 10 are in the wrong order. According to the service manual:
"After correcting the rate push the crown back to position 1 (neutral).
Wait 5 seconds before disconnecting the external power supply."

Also, try to push the crown back to position 1 instead of all the way to position 0. Even if it goes all the way back to position 0, it should be immediately released so it stays on position 1.
The last paragraph is just me being picky as probably you have done it the same way so I just want it to be confirmed.
The important part is the quote from the service manual!

Good luck and let us know, please!

 

[ppaulusz]

...
1. Put watch in cradle. It locks it into place.
2. Open back.
3. Put crown in position 3.
4. Remove battery.
4. Connect needles to the '+' and '-' terminals. As in diagram on page 19. The cradle holds these needles into place. I still have two hands available.
5. Connect the battery (that came out) to wires that are soldered to these needles.
6. Confirm that the watch runs on the battery via the needles by pushing the crown into position 0. Once released, it flips back to position 1, the date ring turns, then ticks normally. It will not run until pushed into the 0 position.
7. Pull crown to position 3 again...

One more thing, Hans: I've checked the service manual because I felt that your procedure is somewhat different than mine even from the very start. It might not be a real issue but I'd like to make a note that the service manual indicates that during battery replacement the crown should be in position 1 (see page 13 or 16 - depending which pdf file you read). In your procedure the crown is in position 3 when you take the battery out and it is still there when you connect the external power supply (see your procedure from step 3 to step 6). Try to do it according to the service manual as it might make a difference.

 

[ppaulusz]

...
9. Wait 5 seconds.
10. Push crown into position 0.
11. Release crown and let it settle into position 1.
12. The date ring turns. The second arm ticks.
13. Pull crown to position 3.
14. Remove needles.
15. Insert battery.
16. Close watch...

I'm back again :
- change order of steps 9 and 10 (as noted in my earlier post)
- leave step 13 out completely(!!!)

Your procedure should be like this:
1. Remove the battery (leave the crown at position 1 - neutral).
2. Connect needles to the '+' and '-' terminals. As in diagram on page 19.
3. Connect the 3V external power supply to the wires that are soldered to these needles.
4. Pull crown to position 3.
5. With one more needle connected to the '+' of the external power supply; tap the 'C-' patch 14 times.
6. Push the crown into position 1.
7. Wait 5 seconds.
8. Disconnect power (remove needles).
9. Insert battery and close the watch.
10. Push crown to position 0 to let the seconds hand run.
11. Set time as you would normally do.

 

[ppaulusz]

Agreed!
Thank you for your tenacity about this.

To make sure that these needles are providing the external power correctly, I will measure some voltages on the watch.

Can't wait to try again!
But first I'll have to wait a few more days to make sure I still have the same rate.

I admire you for your patience with your watch George. It must have taken ages before you knew the corrections worked.

Thank you!

You're welcome, Hans.
As I mentioned earlier we have problems because the whole procedure gets a bit complicated due to the need for an external power supply. Otherwise the calibration procedure is really simple.
My watch was already very accurate: around -4 seconds per year and it needed just a small correction (one impulse) so it took longer to realise that the rate correction went all right. In your case, you should be able to see the result within days.

 

[ppaulusz]

I am an utter moron. It's official.
The correction needle was connected to the minus of the battery. It should have been the plus.

With all my attention focussed on these power providing needles the obvious escaped me.

My apologies for waisting everybody's time.

The good news is that my next effort will likely have a lot more chances of succeeding. Phew!

I have corrected the rate again, and I look forward to the results.

Sorry about that George!

Hans, that is dangerous! You could have killed the electronics of your watch. Lucky you didn't.
However, I agree with Jim: We did not waste time, we learned a lot by going through all the bits and pieces that can make a difference during the calibration procedure. I still believe that your procedure included unnecessary extra steps that can influence the final outcome. Also there were steps in the wrong order and the crown was in the wrong position when you disconnected and reconnected the power. Last but not least your last post shows the importance of paying attention to every details.

 

[ppaulusz]

It was not a waste of time! I got explicit instructions which did not exist before :-! ... every cloud has a silver lining :-d

Actually, it prompted me to get my Perpetual VHP opened up for adjusting... unfortunately I really need 3 hands and have only 2... I'll have to wait until I can get someone to help...

You are right, Jim, it's a "three-handed" business.
My 11 steps instruction is based on the service manual but includes extra info for us, laymen. Good luck!

 

[ppaulusz]

I think the step-by-step instructions listed here are fantastic. Would it be possible for someone knowledgeable to do the same for the non-perpetual VHP conquest. I would find this invaluable, and I am sure there are others who would benefit as well. Thanks in advance!

6-steps instruction guide for calibration of the non-perpetual VHP:

1. Open your watch.
2. Pull the crown to position 3.
3. For ETA 255.563: Connect a wire (or needle on the wire) to the '+' of the battery; tap the 'C-' or 'C+' terminal X times then wait 5 seconds then disconnect wire/needle.
3. For ETA 255.561 and ETA 255.472: Tap (with a toothpick) the 'C-' or 'C+' terminal X times.
4. Push the crown into position 1.
5. Close the watch.
6. Set the time as you would normally do.

 

[ppaulusz]

The only change I would make is to wait 5 seconds between step 4 and 5. The wait of 5 seconds may not be needed as it is not mentioned in some of the other manuals.

The wait period is probably not needed since the battery is installed and the update will not be affected by the removal of adjustment wires (needles).

What do you think, George?

You have just answered your own question, David.
You are correct: The wait of 5 seconds is not needed since the battery is not removed during the whole operation.
It can be said after step 5 (it's rather step 5 than 4 as the actual calibration is completed after the crown is pushed back to position 1.) that: wait for at least 5 seconds if you are about to remove the battery - but why on earth would anyone decide to remove the battery in a situation like that?
In case of a need for battery change, it should be carried out before the calibration procedure.

 

[ppaulusz]

Maybe we're not there as yet.

My watch was 0.03 second slow after I adjusted the rate.
I was a bit slow pushing in the crown! :-d
And after 17 hours of operation, it is 0.06 second fast.

That would equate to 1 second gain every 6 days. Which means no change in the rate.

Measured by video with a NTP calibrated computer clock as reference.

It's a bit premature, to draw conclusions on that so I'll make some more measurements the next few days.

Indeed, it is a bit premature to draw conclusion.
Which guide did you follow: 21-steps (see post #18) or 11-steps (see post #22 ) or something else?

 

[ppaulusz]

These were the steps I used last:

1. Remove the battery (leave the crown at position 1 - neutral).
2. Connect needles to the '+' and '-' terminals. As in diagram on page 19.
3. Connect the 3V external power supply to the wires that are soldered to these needles.
4. Pull crown to position 3.
5. With one more needle connected to the '+' of the external power supply; tap the 'C-' patch 14 times.
6. Push the crown into position 1.
7. Wait 5 seconds.
8. Disconnect power (remove needles).
9. Insert battery and close the watch.
10. Push crown to position 0 to let the seconds hand run.
11. Set time as you would normally do.
Cheers
Hans

OK, I believe these are the right steps according to the manual and common sense. By common sense I meant to indicate that I compared the service manual's guide for calibration of the similar but 1.55V powered ETA 252.511 movement (it does not need external power supply for the calibration) to the service manual's guide for our ETA 252.611 and did not find anything that would contradict the 11-steps guide. On the other hand the comparison actually confirmed for me that the 11-steps guide is the right one.
Well, that is the theory which should be supported by experimental evidence and that is where we have problem.
In the case of my watch I only needed just one impulse given to the "C+" terminal. I have reported that it was a success. I came to this conclusion by checking the watch (3-4 weeks after the rate adjustment) against the atomic-time reference on the net (as I usually do). That time I did not take much note of the fact that in Central Europe we experienced extremely high (close to 40°C) temperature for weeks. I hardly wear the watch so it's been subjected to temperature changes without "body-thermocompensation" or air-conditioning. Its built-in thermocompensation should take care of most but the really extreme temprature changes. Having said that, now I wish I had to correct more than just that one impulse because it would have been easier to measure any rate change with greater adjutment. If nobody else can repeat my success(?) (calibrating the ETA 252.611 movement) in the next couple of weeks then I will make a new attempt to adjust the rate on my Longines: this time I would go for + or - 10 impulses (equals to around + or - 40 seconds per year) just to see that it really works. In the meantime, I pray that someone will save me from the "forced" calibration procedure.

 

[ppaulusz]

Excellent example of clear thinking, George. The forced calibration, while painful, would be a clear confirmation if necessary. Do David's positive results support the validity of your procedure?

David is yet to calibrate a watch that needs external power supply during the procedure. He had great results with his other watches. We know that the external power supply makes the procedure much more complicated (for us laypersons). So I look forward to David's attempt to calibrate his Longines (ETA 252.611).

 

[ppaulusz]

... There is one more step that I would like to slip in somewhere. And I believe it makes a lot of sense.
It is step 3B as outlined on page 16. "Press the crown briefly; the watch will begin to work ..."

I suspect that connecting an external power supply, and for that matter inserting a new battery will not get this watch going. It needs this quick push on the crown for the watch to get to work.

So the corrections I made in my last effort were made to a watch that is asleep. Or at least not switched on.

And another guess: The quick push on the crown to get the watch going, was meant so that the watch could be stored without draining the battery. To store it until it was time to be sold.

In my last effort I made sure that the watch was connected to the external power supply by measuring the voltage as in Fig 1. on page 15. I would have liked to just switch it on, by pressing the crown briefly and then pulling the crown to position 3, and start the corrections.

What do you think? Do you remember anything about quickly pressing the crown to get the watch going while on external power?

Cheers
Hans

Hans, your theory about step 3B makes sense. It might be the missing link. Yes, it can happen that the watch has an "on switch" (crown position 0) for safety reason and for avoiding draining of the battery in the shop (as you mentioned).

Honestly, I can't recall pushing the crown into 0 position before pulling it to position 3 during the calibration procedure. Not on purpose for sure. Accidently? It's a long shot... I doubt.

However, one thing is almost certain to me: we run out of options or logical (my logic) alternatives. It's either my original 11-steps procedure or it's modified (by you) version with the added step 3B. The more I think about it, the more I like your thought about the extra step.|> I'd say, give it a go!
Good luck (you will need it)!

 

[ppaulusz]

Hans, your theory about step 3B makes sense. It might be the missing link. Yes, it can happen that the watch has an "on switch" (crown position 0) for safety reason and for avoiding draining of the battery in the shop (as you mentioned)...

Hans, I just had a chat with my Brother who knows a great deal more about electronics than me. He helped me with the calibration or rather I helped him as he is the handyman in the family. The bottom line is: in his opinion, you are right, that extra step is needed!!! He even added that he should have known better and should have realised the importance of the 0 position of the crown straight away.
Take it as a compliment, Hans!:-!
So the 11-steps guide becomes the 12-steps guide:
1. Remove the battery (leave the crown at position 1 - neutral).
2. Connect needles to the '+' and '-' terminals. (See in diagram on page 19.)
3. Connect the 3V external power supply to the wires that are soldered to these needles.
4. Push the crown to position 0 then release it back to position 1 - that action is needed to switch the watch on - then wait for the date ring to complete its turn.
5. Pull the crown to position 3.
6. With one more needle connected to the '+' of the external power supply; tap the 'C-' or 'C+'terminal X times. (The direction and the number of pulses depend on the current rate of the watch. See the manual for more info.)
7. Push the crown into position 1.
8. Wait 5 seconds.
9. Disconnect power (remove the needles).
10. Insert the battery and close the watch.
11. Push the crown to position 0 to switch the watch on. (The seconds-hand will start to run.)
12. Set time as you would normally do.

Well, looks like our group effort finally got this thing right.

I look forward to your result, Hans, using the latest formula.

Our friend, David, might want to use the latest guide too for his attempt to calibrate his Longines. I'm sure he too will post his findings for this forum.

 

[ppaulusz]

Thank you for this summary. I will use it as soon as I re-establish the running rate of my watch. (I have been neglecting it since I purchased The Citizen). One small point of clarification; I assume you regard the crown as being in position 1 when it is pressed fully home into the body, as opposed to the perpetual models which apparently have a further spring-loaded crown position referred to as position 0?

You are welcome, mspil!
That is right: position 1 is the normal position of the crown ("pressed fully home").

 

[ppaulusz]

Well, I just delivered 5 retard pulses to my Perpetual VHP... but, I confess, in the confusion of making sure the wife didn't short the leads I am not sure if I pushed to position 0. Oh well, we'll all blunder through this somehow! :-d

I'm looking forward to getting my 'new' VHP dual xtal back from the jeweler (he is trying to get new links for the bracelet from Longines... I got it from Asia and it is missing a number of links.) That watch should be easier as it doesn't need battery removal.

One point for the other Perpetual owners, did you have a plastic insulator under the battery?

If so, I'll have to fabricate one for the eTime 1.01 (my build from scratch VHP... yes, I'm still working on it... I'll post all the problems when it is done or given up on!). The bare Longines movement I got didn't have an insulator. (At least I'm finding this out before assembly!)

Yes, Jim, my Longines has a plastic insulator under that large lithium battery.
I wonder if your calibration attempt was a success. The jinx is there for anyone who tries to calibrate that beast...:-d