[webvan]

I hate to post a new message here based on the above message, but rather than starting a new thread with my comments/questions on the regulating proces, I think it's best to post here to keep the "history" and ppaulusz definitive steps can hopefully be added by a moderator to the first message with a title in red for easy reference ;-)

So here's a summary of my VHP tuning "odyssey" :

1. Got a Flagship VHP in early February

2. After an unexplained 10 second loss "hiccup", it was showing a +45/50 spy rate, way out of spec

3. Snap on back so a massive pain to remove, a watchmaker put me out of my misery (used a box cutter and tapped on it with a small hammer !) and opened it

4. Thanks to the service manual available here http://tinyurl.com/etavhpservice (type : 252.611 in "Option 2" and First link), the pics and steps here I knew what to expect

5. Set up problems :
a. Finding a way to power the watch, pull out the crown and tap on the C+ or C- terminal !
b. I used a "scary" contraption made up of a multi-plug power adapter and the needles of my voltmeter! The voltemeter is handy to check that all is being powered as should be, especially the "needle" to tap the C+/C- terminals, here is a picture :

6. Problems with the process :
a. Pushing in the crown to 0 to wake up the watch is easy, pulling out to position 3 not so much, make sure you hear two clicks
b. Another problem with the crown is pushing back to 1 without going to zero since you have to wait 5 seconds in 1 (bolded in the service manual)
c. The remaining problem I haven't figured out is the tapping part. I read the messages above about that but the area to tap wasn't specified. I assume tapping anywhere on the gold connector is good enough? The service manual seems to point to the "black dot" inside the connector...

7. Results : No joy so far, based on some quick testing, I'm at +73spy now (yes I did tap on the C- terminal)...duh! Well I did have to change the original battery as I was getting the EOL (+4 second jumps) signal so maybe I need to figure out the rate with the new battery and adjust it. Not to convinced though...If someone can clarify whether it matters where you tap on the terminals ? Thanks !

 

[webvan]

Didn't your AD even offer to have it sent back to your local service center ? The watchmaker I was at the other day knew about VHPs but he said they couldn't be adjusted and that he was glad they had been phased out :-(

Do you have any sense as to what steps are causing you difficulties ? Which model do you have ?

I did the process again, this time double-checking everything and tapping a bit longer on the C- and trying to aim at the "black spot"...we shall see.

After starting the watch again, setting it and getting the delay with the "video method" I set it aside and when I picked it up 5 minutes ago I noticed it was doing its EOL (4 second jumps) again...with a battery I put in last night. That CR-2016 battery was still sealed but I've had it for years (about 10) so maybe it's "worn out" too...that or my watch has an issue. Can the EOL signal mean anything else (some type of shorting?) ? If it happens again I'll go out and get a brand new battery to rule out a battery problem.

 

[webvan]

Thanks, yes I did tap a bit longer during my last try, I'll see what happens, but looking at the posts on the previous pages, it seems Hans had come to the conclusion that a "quick tap" is what the watch wanted.

@vizi - nice setup !

 

[webvan]

Thanks. For some reason my latest attempt seems to have worked better and after 6 hours I'm still spot on using the "video method" that's accurate down to about 0.04 second variations so with my previous 73spy (0.05 in six hours) it would already be off...here's hoping!

Did you ever see the EOL signal other than with a weak battery ?

The point you raise about temperature is interesting since I've observed a variation of about 15spy going from 20c to 30c on my ETA based watches. What temperature did you end up setting it to?

 

[webvan]

Well like Hans once wrote here, it seems my VHP has stopped ignoring me too, the longer taps must have helped ! After almost 24 hours I'm still in the 0.04 uncertainty area (maybe a tad slow) of the video testing (1/25fps), will have to monitor it several days now ;-)

@Hans - how do you measure milliseconds with your video setup ?

 

[webvan]

Thanks, doesn't look like I'm going to be able to replicate that setup ;-)

It seems to be stabilizing at -20spy so I'll need a few more taps but the other way round now. That's at room temperature though so starting this afternoon I'll put it on my router for 48 hours to simulate a "wearing pattern" and see what happens. Based on what I saw with the other ETA HEQs I own, I could be looking at a 15/20 second variation, consistent with the +/- 10 spy rating. I'll probably go for 4 taps as that would normally bring it to -4spy at room temp and 0 with a bit of wearing.

 

[webvan]

Good to hear but how did you measure 0,007 seconds ?!

 

[webvan]

Unless you have a super camera the best accuracy you can get with the video method is 1/25=0.04s. Having said that it's good that you're not seeing any drift. When it's that close I generally run a couple of tests to see where the "tick" falls, it could be anywhere in that 0.04s range.

 

[webvan]

Nice work. Mine is now at +5.1spy when worn 24 hours a day. I'm going to see how it behaves at room temp and see if it needs further adjusting.

By the way, unless you have a clever setup and are relying on holding two needles with one hand and tapping with another one with your other hand, I've found that setting the day to 1 helps as you don't have to wait for the calendar wheel to turn. You can check that the watch got properly powered in the process by looking at the seconds hand before and after.

 

[webvan]

Anyone have an idea how this method could be adapated to the ETA 988.352 of the Breitling Aerospace ? Mine has recently lost the plot with an unexplained +30spy shift...and seems to have settled at +22/+32 (room/worn).

 

[webvan]

Good news, my Aerospace went back to normal after I changed the battery (tiny screws, not easy!). Still interested in the steps if anyone figured them out.

I stopped calibrating when it was at 2-3 s/yr off while (mostly) wearing.
If I wear it continuously it gains 10 ms per day.
A cold night off the wrist slows it down by 15 ms.
A warm night slows it down by 5-10 ms.

So setting it to a slight gain leaves you some room to take it off now and then.
And leaves you some room to 'cheat'.

I'm sure I saw another post of yours recently were you gave the time in spy...but can't find it again, even after a good hour of searching! Anyway I was wondering if you'd seen any changes in the drift over time (the so-called "aging") with your elaborate setup? It must be there since many of the TC watches that fall into the hands of the crazy bunch here are often way out of spec.

 

[webvan]

Nice strategy! Maybe you can't keep track of the rate "scientifically" but it does show that there is no significant impact of "aging" plus at the end of the day what matters is the "real life" ;-) Still I wonder how all these TC ETAs got to be so much out of spec in terms of their drift at 50+ spy.

 

[webvan]

Not strictly speaking "Longines VHP accuracy" since it's Omega's rating of the Omega 1690, the same TC ETA 252.611 movement as the one used in the Longines VHP (minus the 3v battery so it's much easier to adjust it!) and they're on the conservative it seems with a +/- 055 spd rating, i.e. +/- 20spy.

Not very ambitious since testing here shows a variation of about 10spy between room and warm temperatures...but a good way to prevent accuracy fans (who don't know how to adjust it themselves) to ask for any adjustments.

So far we had :
- ETA's technical documents (https://secure.eta.ch/CSP/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=2&tabid=28 and type 252.611) to go buy and they only recommended the rate be adjusted if the watch drifted more than 0.8 seconds over a month of testing, i.e; 10 spy, the implied rating
- Breitling rating their "Superquartz" at +/-15spm, a bit less conservative (not sure if it's stated in the manual).