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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This morning someone from Panerists Forum forwarded this link to me
*** Paneristi Public Forum ***: Horrible watch deal!! What are your thoughts?-

George from Panerists forum recieved an empty box from Kyle Ross and now many of the Panerists forum members are suspecting Kyle is a scammer.

3 buyers received empty boxes when dealing with Kyle Ross within 5 months period. Is this a coincident or purely work of scam? Please be your own judge.

Please also read through my previous post
https://www.watchuseek.com/f63/non-...n-dealing-kyle-ross-k-swissmade78-479220.html

Cheer and have a good read.
Darren
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

Good news from Henrik (Sweden) that last month he won the paypal dispute claim against Kyle, and now he got all his hard earned monies back. This clearly shows that based on the findings, paypal investigation team were convinced that Henrik didn't received the watch from Kyle except an EMPTY BOX.

It is always a pleasure to see justice prevailed :)

 

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Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

Good news from Henrik (Sweden) that last month he won the paypal dispute claim against Kyle, and now he got all his hard earned monies back. This clearly shows that based on the findings, paypal investigation team were convinced that Henrik didn't received the watch from Kyle except an EMPTY BOX.

It is always a pleasure to see justice prevailed :)

Interesting, just wondering, how did Paypal decide that the box was empty? I would think that this is one of the toughest scams to prove. Glad he got his dough though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

With the great help from forum moderator Steve, and after reading through my emails with Kyle, he discovered that the only 2 Omega POC pictures that Kyle sent to me were not his. One of them was taken from The Old Watch Shop UK website and the other one was from the replica site. No wonder Kyle was reluctant to sent me more pictures of "his" POC when the time he approaches me for the trade. When my "watch" got missing and I ask for the serial number of the POC so that I can report this to Omega but Kyle told me that he has no record of the serial number nor taken any pictures of the warranty card. So, I asked him to check with the AD who sold him the POC since he only bought it recently. Later, he told me that the AD who sold him the watch has gone bankrupt. If you read through the above Paneristi forum, George also asked for the scan copy of the Rolex DSSD warranty card when making police report but in return he received a well documented barrage of abusive emails and made threats on Paneristi forum.

This is very clear that Kyle don't even have the Omega POC Orange Bezel in the first place when trading my Tudor Hydro 1200m. If he has it, why sent me a POC picture from the Old Watch Shop UK website and the other one from replica site.

I am so glad that WUS finally banned him so that other honest members will not be scammed by him. But the end is far from over for Kyle. With the great help from some good guys in the state, we will continue to dig deeper into the whole thing and very soon we should know how the "watch" vanish in the box via USPS delivery.

Kyle, if you are reading this thread as a guest, I do suggest that you to sell all your high-end watches to hire a good lawyer to help lower your punishment. You are really in the mess now. Btw, I am still keeping all our emails as well as the box, custom form, used papers and omega booklet that you sent to me in-exchange for my Tudor Hydro. I am most happy to send it to your local authority for further investigation.

I also can't wait to see how are you going to claim USD5000 insurance from USPS for your missing "Rolex DSSD"
 

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Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

Interesting reading for a late Friday night ...
 

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Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

Wow, I just read everything. I cannot believe this guy, 3 watches missing, it's a scam for sure. Sorry for everyone's loss, Kyle won't be trading anymore hopefully.
 

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Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

I did a three way trade with him last year, but his part was to pay another guy for a watch I wanted. When he did, I sent him my watch. It worked out fine, but I've been watching his buying and selling, and the guy never seemed right. He would pick up a $6,000 watch, post a whole bunch of photos saying it was his grail, and then sell it within a week. I assumed he had some kind of contact to get the watches cheap, then talk them up and flip them, but never expected this.

As a frequent buyer/seller, I have to say that there are some really screwed up people out there, and it makes me nervous every time I buy or sell a watch.

Sorry for the folks who got ripped off....just a shame that people act this way.
 

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Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

Interesting, just wondering, how did Paypal decide that the box was empty? I would think that this is one of the toughest scams to prove. Glad he got his dough though.
Henrik's final post notes how the Swedish Post noted the box as empty upon arrival and further cites Swedish Customs having valued the package at zero upon entry, after an X-ray. That sounds pretty conclusive that the watch was abstracted en route like the others, just as Kyle Ross aka Swissmade78 says.

I must say that this is terrible for Kyle. Nobody will trust him in an international deal now. Even though he sounds honest, if a mole in the USPS is tracking and cracking his packages, who would buy from him? Henrik ended up okay but poor Kyle is out his money. This must be terribly frustrating - I'd hate to be in his shoes.
 

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Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

Where are the postal inspectors? Im glad the one guy got his money back!! Lets make the USPS (if thats where the posting is being done) accountable to find out were the "stinker" is in their employ and get rid of him AFTER RESTORATION and the return of the watches!!! If Swissmade78 is working a scam...SHAME ON YOU BRO!
 

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Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

Just wanted to point out that he was caught by a WUS mod using stock photos in the ad, and represented them as his own. If you read the thread from the other forum, he repeatedly denies that he did that, even after it was 100% clear.

I have no horse in the race here, but not sure there are two sides to this anymore, and I would seriously doubt that there is a dirty postal employee involved in this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

Another interesting news on Kyle. Recently, there is a guy name Gary (Paneristi Forum) made a watch plus cash trade with Kyle. Gary traded his Penerai 305L plus bunch of $$$$ for Kyle's AP ROO. But later found out that the AP ROO he got from Kyle was a good fake watch. As usual, Kyle provided Gary a thousand of reasons trying to proof that he is innocent and not knowing the AP was fake in the first place etc. Sadly, when Gary wanted his PAM305 back, Kyle told him that the 305 has already been sold. No wonder George would take the trouble to stom Kyle's house to get back his watch before it is sold by Kyle.

This clearly show that Kyle a real con-artise.
 

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Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

I am a new member but I have lurked around her for a while. I actually purchased a Rolex Submariner from Kyle and was very happy with our deal. I occasionally talk to him and have to step in after what I just read. I am sorry for what happened to you Penerai but you last post was ridiculous. Kyle told me the real story a month ago. Kyle was scammed by a guy who has been at it for years. Kyle traded the real Scammer an expensive Panerai face to face and got a fake AP. Kyle thought it was real and went to see that guy Gary. Kyle and Gary then traded face to face and Gary thought the AP was real also. They later found out it was a fake and even another guy named Doug on this forum had the same thing happen to him by the same Scammer. When Kyle found out it was fake he went to the police and the NY police are after the real Scammer. So I am sorry about what happened Penerai but now you are making things up. As I said I dealt with Kyle and found him very honest, I do think he has had some bad luck though.
 

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Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

Also Penerai I dont know you but I do know Kyle from 1 deal and from that deal I have nothing but goods things to say about him. I agree that he probably should never have Used the US postal service for shipping because they are not reliable in my opinion, I have heard way too many bad stories about them. I do tend to agree with Toronto Pete though, someone could have definitely targeted him knowing he ships out luxury watches. But for you to sit there and say something totally untrue about the real situation with the fake AP and Gary is wrong. I know Kyle to be honest from our deal and would trust him again, but you I don't know and there is also the possibility that you got the watch and said you didn't. Sorry but me accusing you is like you accusing him, there are always 2 sides to a story.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

Interesting. Rolielover with 1 post is defending Kyle Rose? By the way, are you Kyle Ross who just registered an account on WUS and try to convince other members that you have done nothing wrong? or are you worried that the authority will come after you?

well, lets pretend that you are not him, then please answer me this simple question "why Kyle Ross used 2 photos of Omega POC from other websites, and represented them as his own when approached me for a trade? This is how you try to convince me that Kyle is HONEST??????

Don't try to tell me he later sent me back-up photos. Please proof it!. I am still keeping all our emails and watch photos, so please dont make up story.

I am not here to tarnish Kyle Ross's reputation but to expose all his worng doings. If there are not enough evidence against Kyle's wrong doings, WUS mod will not banned him.

There were too many fishy trades on Kyle lately and i dont think you can call it BAD LUCKS.

Anymore from you Rolielover?
 

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Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

Do you see how ridiculous you sound ? Accusing me of being Kyle? I am not Kyle and the reason I stepped in is because you are making false statements about Kyle which have no merit and he can't even defend himself. Like I said, I have done 1 deal with Kyle and I was very happy. But reading your posts and baseless attacks on Kyle and now me, you come off as bitter and immature in my opinion. If Kyle did something wrong then shame on him,but I feel from my deal with Kyle that he is a good guy. That is my opinion and your attacks on him have not and will not change my thoughts.
 

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Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

No horse in this race, either. However, I've bought/sold quite a bit. I always use USPS, insured for full value (most expensive watch being a brand new sub LV). Never had an issue. However, if just one of my watches disappeared in transit, I'd never use USPS, again. Kyle has lost at least 3 watches shipping this way. Why would he continue to use them especially if it is possible someone at the USPS is pilfering his high dollar items? I'm glad that not everyone who has dealt with Kyle/Swissmade78 was the victim of a scam. I think, though, that it is a stretch to think Kyle is, in anyway, a victim in any of these cases.
 

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Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

Good news from Henrik (Sweden) that last month he won the paypal dispute claim against Kyle, and now he got all his hard earned monies back. This clearly shows that based on the findings, paypal investigation team were convinced that Henrik didn't received the watch from Kyle except an EMPTY BOX.

It is always a pleasure to see justice prevailed :)

This is why I'm a huge fan of PayPal. It helps take away the stress of handing a stranger money with no way of knowing if they are truly legitimate or not. It's worth the premium charged by some sellers, IMHO!
 

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Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

No horse in this race, either. However, I've bought/sold quite a bit. I always use USPS, insured for full value (most expensive watch being a brand new sub LV). Never had an issue. However, if just one of my watches disappeared in transit, I'd never use USPS, again. Kyle has lost at least 3 watches shipping this way. Why would he continue to use them especially if it is possible someone at the USPS is pilfering his high dollar items? I'm glad that not everyone who has dealt with Kyle/Swissmade78 was the victim of a scam. I think, though, that it is a stretch to think Kyle is, in anyway, a victim in any of these cases.
I'm not a fan of USPS when shipping valuables. I don't see the point in saving a few dollars when merchandise worth thousands of dollars are at stake. FedEx with full insurance is the ONLY way to go, IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: Looks like another buyers received an empty box from Kyle Ross a.k Swissmade78.

Well, Rolielover, first of all I would like to apologize calling you Kyle Ross. Since you based on my above message and saying that I am accusing Kyle without any base and make up story to attack him. Then I should clarify where I got those messages from and break it up line by line to see whether I am making up story to attack him or not.

The above messages were taken from the comments in the attached Paneristi Forum and also emails from those parties involved.

Now let me break up the message line by line to see whether or not I am making up anything baseless.

L1: Another interesting news on Kyle. Recently, there is a guy name Gary (Paneristi Forum) made a watch plus cash trade with Kyle. Gary traded his Penerai 305L plus bunch of $$$$ for Kyle's AP ROO. Gary did traded his PAM305L plus cash for Kyle's AP ROO

L2: But later found out that the AP ROO he got from Kyle was a good fake watch. As usual, Kyle provided Gary a thousand of reasons trying to proof that he is innocent and not knowing the AP was fake in the first place etc. Well, it was true that Gary later found out that the AP ROO he got from Kyle was a fake watch. Kyle later tried to convince Gary that he is innocent and not knowing the AP was a fake in the first place.

L3: Sadly, when Gary wanted his PAM305 back, Kyle told him that the 305 has already been sold. It is also true that Kyle told Gary that he has sold the PAM305 when Gary wants back the watch.

L4: No wonder George would take the trouble to stom Kyle's house to get back his watch before it is sold by Kyle.After George received the empty box from Kyle and talking to Gary Jemal, he decided to rush to Kyle's house to get back is watch before it is being sold by Kyle.
Check out this comment by George from Paneristi Forum:
I then had a conversation with Gary Jemal. That conversation made me tell Kyle I was hiring a car and driving up to his town to collect my watch. Anyone who knows Gary, and i know a lot of you do, are free to contact him and hear his story and his experience with Kyle.

L5 : This clearly show that Kyle a real con-artist. Yes, I labeled Kyle as a con-artist because he keeps on repeatedly denies that sending me two (yes only TWO) pictures of "HIS" POC taken from The Old Watch Shop UK and replica watch sites when approaching me for a trade last October 2010. I had my emails and these 2 photos as evidence forwarded it to the WUS mod, and that was why he got banned. Since he claimed sending me his POC pictures from his imageshack, WHY didn't he show us the email to proof his innocent?
You don't need a super detective to figure out the motive behind using stock pictures representing his own when approaching someone for a watch trade. This clearly shows that he does not even have the watch in the first place to go into this trade with me. No wonder, I only received a parcel full of compressed used plastic bags, papers and an Omega watch catalogue.
I also seriously doubt that USPS is fully responsible for all those missing watches sending out by Kyle. After my incident with Kyle, I bought two other stuffs from USA Ebay seller, a cro strap and a wrist watch. Cro strap was sent vis USPS International Priority (w/o insurance) and watch via USPS Express Delivery (insured), both arrived safely. Like WUS member ramirez1970 pointed out that "Why would he continue to use them especially if it is possible someone at the USPS is pilfering his high dollar items?"
And I also doubt that 3 watches got missing, a fake AP ROO and strap issues within 5 months period were the purely the work of "BAD LUCKS" J
There are still many questions went un-answered by Kyle. And I am most happy to re-list it again for your reading purpose.
I am not here to break your loyalty with Kyle but to expose all his wrong doings. I am very sure this post will become very useful when the authorities start their investigation into those missing watches.
Well, as the old saying goes; you may fool someone some of the times but you can't fool everybody all the times.
 
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