[clove]

Hi,

I am about to purchase my first 'serious' watch for my 30th birthday. I have been looking around and the watches that have caught my are ones with white faces with blue dials. The first that drew me to this particular design is the Longines Heritage Retrograde L4.797.4.71.2 . Upon looking further, I have found similar watches, notably...Maurice Lacroix Masterpiece Flyback Annuaire mp6098-ss001-19e and Baume & Mercier Capeland Flyback Chronograph.

I thought it best to get the opinions of seasoned pros on this. Firstly, which of the models would you pick and why (do you know of any issues with the above etc) and socondly, can you suggest any alternatives to those listed, up to a budget of around £5k?

Many thanks in advance!!!!

 

[Watchbreath]

:think: An issue with me is the cost of repair or service.

 

[CitizenM]

I love the Longines Retrograde models. If you like the Heritage one, you're bound to like their Master version as well. They also have the Master Retrograde Moon Phase, which while too cluttered in the photos, is beautiful in real life.

Plus the Longines has a unique movement (not in house, but all custom complications built on a 7750) that you won't see anywhere else. I like chronographs well enough, but I never use them, and it bothers me that my dial is so cluttered with stuff that's never doing anything. I may not ever need to know the moon phase, but at least the complication is doing stuff actively. Plus this movement has an independent hour hand for a true GMT complication, and in a rare double twist, it has a quickset date too, one of the only watches in the world with both of these. These ones are winners in my book, although they are surprisingly thick.

You seem to like busy dials judging from your selection. You've got quite a big budget there, so let me throw some more at you that are within or pretty close to your budget.

The GO Panomatic Lunar will stretch your budget, but is unquestionably a superior watch.

If you're into chronographs, I'd recommend the Speedmaster 9300 (you don't seem to want a diver, the Speedmaster is much less intense) or one of the Aqua Terra chronographs:

I like the relatively clean dial (for a chronograph) on the 9300s. Great movement too.

I just think the Aqua Terra Chronographs look awesome although they're not using the current crop of movements from Omega.

If you want a really, really awesome watch with a super complicated movement, you could definitely afford an Ananta SD chronograph:

It's got a spring drive, so it's crazy accurate, plus an extra long power reserve, nearly 100% longer than an ordinary watch. Then it's got a chronograph, date, power reserve, and true gmt complication. This thing does it all. It's a big watch though. Grand Seiko movement on a budget.

This one is the same movement (albeit better decorated) in the Grand Seiko version. This is an epic watch in person. Photos can't describe it, but I got to wear one a year ago and it floored me in person. Anyway, same stuff as above, but a much lighter watch, much smaller, and just all around nicer feeling. But it's a little out of your estimated budget.

Those are some of my pics, but I'll mention a few more you can google if you're interested. Maurice Lacroix put out at least two different series of retrograde watches of their own that are very cool looking handwound models. In my opinion, they're a little overpriced compared to the Longines, but they are very cool. I don't remember the names but you can find them easily enough. There's also a variety of Seikos with the 6R20, 6R21 and 6R24 movements which are easily in your budget and are pretty good movements with lots of complications. Also, the Oris Artelier Complication is easily within your budget and has a nice complex looking dial.

 

[omega1234]

I love the Longines Retrograde models. If you like the Heritage one, you're bound to like their Master version as well. They also have the Master Retrograde Moon Phase, which while too cluttered in the photos, is beautiful in real life.

Plus the Longines has a unique movement (not in house, but all custom complications built on a 7750) that you won't see anywhere else. I like chronographs well enough, but I never use them, and it bothers me that my dial is so cluttered with stuff that's never doing anything. I may not ever need to know the moon phase, but at least the complication is doing stuff actively. Plus this movement has an independent hour hand for a true GMT complication, and in a rare double twist, it has a quickset date too, one of the only watches in the world with both of these. These ones are winners in my book, although they are surprisingly thick.

You seem to like busy dials judging from your selection. You've got quite a big budget there, so let me throw some more at you that are within or pretty close to your budget.

The GO Panomatic Lunar will stretch your budget, but is unquestionably a superior watch.

If you're into chronographs, I'd recommend the Speedmaster 9300 (you don't seem to want a diver, the Speedmaster is much less intense) or one of the Aqua Terra chronographs:

I like the relatively clean dial (for a chronograph) on the 9300s. Great movement too.

I just think the Aqua Terra Chronographs look awesome although they're not using the current crop of movements from Omega.

If you want a really, really awesome watch with a super complicated movement, you could definitely afford an Ananta SD chronograph:

It's got a spring drive, so it's crazy accurate, plus an extra long power reserve, nearly 100% longer than an ordinary watch. Then it's got a chronograph, date, power reserve, and true gmt complication. This thing does it all. It's a big watch though. Grand Seiko movement on a budget.

This one is the same movement (albeit better decorated) in the Grand Seiko version. This is an epic watch in person. Photos can't describe it, but I got to wear one a year ago and it floored me in person. Anyway, same stuff as above, but a much lighter watch, much smaller, and just all around nicer feeling. But it's a little out of your estimated budget.

Those are some of my pics, but I'll mention a few more you can google if you're interested. Maurice Lacroix put out at least two different series of retrograde watches of their own that are very cool looking handwound models. In my opinion, they're a little overpriced compared to the Longines, but they are very cool. I don't remember the names but you can find them easily enough. There's also a variety of Seikos with the 6R20, 6R21 and 6R24 movements which are easily in your budget and are pretty good movements with lots of complications. Also, the Oris Artelier Complication is easily within your budget and has a nice complex looking dial.

+1 for the PanoMaticLunar.

 

[RBrylawski]

Citizen gave you some excellent options. I like all the watches you posted, plus the options he gave you. I thought you might like to hear from someone who actually owns a Capeland Flyback. That would be me. It's a beautiful watch inside and out. The LaJoux Perret 8147-2 movement is beautiful and was designed exclusively for this watch. The fit and finish is superb and I couldn't be happier with mine. The aftermarket service from B&M has been beyond terrific. I wanted to get a blue alligator band for mine and when I ordered one directly from Baume, it fit, but was small. I let them know and not only did they replace the band with a longer one (shipping at their cost both ways), but they sent me a B&M Watch Winder to say they were sorry for any inconvenience. A completely unnecessary thing to do, but something that continued to demonstrate the quality of the company and how they treat customers.

Below are a couple pictures of my flyback. Regardless of which watch you decide on, you've got some great options here and I'm sure any of them would provide many years of trouble-free service. Get the one that you think would make you happiest everytime you strap it to your wrist.......



Ps: Tomjoad suggested you look at Frederique Constant below. I just bought my first Frederique Constant two weeks ago and it is a great value for sure. It's not the same in my opinion as my Capeland, but it's a great watch for sure.

 

[tomjoad]

All three brands make great watches. I'd personally be more inclined towards Longines. However B&M's offerings are making me look twice at them. I've heard nothing but good things about ML watches, but honestly I don't have a desire to look at them seriously now.

Have you given Frederique Constant a serious look? If not, I think you should!

 

[mpalmer]

Both are great companies, but if I had your budget I don't think I would be seriously looking at either. I would be looking at JLC or Glashutte Original if you are set on dressy, Rolex or Omega if sportier was an option.

 

[ultramantaro]

Flybacks will always cost you an arm and a leg, but IMHO they are way different watches from the retrogrades you've mentioned. Personally I really like the Longines model just from photos and what I found on the web as it offers the most bang for your buck. The Capeland looks great as well, but again it's a very different watch from the Longines. Also from a brand prestige perspective B et M is higher than Longines, if you so do care ...

I've bought two chronographs over 10 years ago and I seriously only use them twice for a real life situation. IMHO it's more of a nice to have, makes the watch look more substantial but adds little real life functionality. Power reserve and dates are much more useful functions.

 

[Roller.959]

Hi,

I am about to purchase my first 'serious' watch for my 30th birthday. I have been looking around and the watches that have caught my are ones with white faces with blue dials. The first that drew me to this particular design is the Longines Heritage Retrograde L4.797.4.71.2 . Upon looking further, I have found similar watches, notably...Maurice Lacroix Masterpiece Flyback Annuaire mp6098-ss001-19e and Baume & Mercier Capeland Flyback Chronograph.

I thought it best to get the opinions of seasoned pros on this. Firstly, which of the models would you pick and why (do you know of any issues with the above etc) and socondly, can you suggest any alternatives to those listed, up to a budget of around £5k?

Many thanks in advance!!!!

You have gotten some great recs here. Of the three you chose, I like the B&M best, mostly due to aesthetics. Longines is definitely the value buy for what it is worth.

Watchbreath's point is very well taken. If you read about some of the service costs of some of these watches, you may be surprised. For some we are talking in excess of $1k.

If that is not an issue then game on. If it is a consideration for you, I'd stick with the Longines.

In the same price range of the GO, should you decide to indulge, which is above your stated price, I am more than pleased with my Montblanc Rieussec.

\


Closer to your range, one I really like is the Montblanc Twinfly Flyback. A bit sportier, unique design/complication, and a fantastic case shape.




Case profile in titanium garb.

The MBs are a little unique IMO. Both are 43mm, so a touch larger. Both are also in-house movements, which tends to equal money at servicing. Keep that in mind. Good Luck!


ADD: Under your budget, is a fun new offering from Christopher Ward. Their C900 monopusher chronograph. I like monopushers (Rieussec), this looks sharp, and although I haven't handled one yet, this appears to be a hell of a lot of watch for the money...at about half your budget.

 

[jilgiljongiljing]

A lot of real nice watches on this thread already. I love the Baume, its one of their best watches. But its pricey, if you can get a decent discount on it, get it. I've never really been that big a fan of ML other than some of their Masterpiece models, to me I'd go for Baume over ML. As for Longines, the master collection is great, but I've always associated B&M with a bit more cachet and status than Longines. I would love to own that retrograde Longines though, and yes it does look superb in person.

 

[RBrylawski]

You have gotten some great recs here. Of the three you chose, I like the B&M best, mostly due to aesthetics. Longines is definitely the value buy for what it is worth.

Watchbreath's point is very well taken. If you read about some of the service costs of some of these watches, you may be surprised. For some we are talking in excess of $1k.

If that is not an issue then game on. If it is a consideration for you, I'd stick with the Longines.

In the same price range of the GO, should you decide to indulge, which is above your stated price, I am more than pleased with my Montblanc Rieussec.

View attachment 896419

\


Closer to your range, one I really like is the Montblanc Twinfly Flyback. A bit sportier, unique design/complication, and a fantastic case shape.

View attachment 896422


Case profile in titanium garb.

The MBs are a little unique IMO. Both are 43mm, so a touch larger. Both are also in-house movements, which tends to equal money at servicing. Keep that in mind. Good Luck!


ADD: Under your budget, is a fun new offering from Christopher Ward. Their C900 monopusher chronograph. I like monopushers (Rieussec), this looks sharp, and although I haven't handled one yet, this appears to be a hell of a lot of watch for the money...at about half your budget.

Roller, I so LOVE your Rieussec!

 

[Roller.959]

Roller, I so LOVE your Rieussec!

Thanks Man. Bad thing is that all black dial is starting to really grow on me. Gettin the itch.

Got to get my hands (inspection time) on one of those Chris Wards. Could the watch box handle two more monopushers? :think:

 

[mleok]

Citizen gave you some excellent options. I like all the watches you posted, plus the options he gave you. I thought you might like to hear from someone who actually owns a Capeland Flyback. That would be me. It's a beautiful watch inside and out. The LaJoux Perret 8147-2 movement is beautiful and was designed exclusively for this watch. The fit and finish is superb and I couldn't be happier with mine. The aftermarket service from B&M has been beyond terrific. I wanted to get a blue alligator band for mine and when I ordered one directly from Baume, it fit, but was small. I let them know and not only did they replace the band with a longer one (shipping at their cost both ways), but they sent me a B&M Watch Winder to say they were sorry for any inconvenience. A completely unnecessary thing to do, but something that continued to demonstrate the quality of the company and how they treat customers.

Below are a couple pictures of my flyback. Regardless of which watch you decide on, you've got some great options here and I'm sure any of them would provide many years of trouble-free service. Get the one that you think would make you happiest everytime you strap it to your wrist.......

View attachment 872869 View attachment 872867 View attachment 872868

Ps: Tomjoad suggested you look at Frederique Constant below. I just bought my first Frederique Constant two weeks ago and it is a great value for sure. It's not the same in my opinion as my Capeland, but it's a great watch for sure.

I like how the blue alligator strap brings out the blue in the dial, it's a beautiful looking watch. The B&M watch winder is indeed a classy gesture.

 

[RBrylawski]

I like how the blue alligator strap brings out the blue in the dial, it's a beautiful looking watch. The B&M watch winder is indeed a classy gesture.

Why Thank You! The blue band from B&M, while 'uber' expensive, was just the right option to put on this watch. The band color matches the blue hands perfectly. I ordered the band directly from B&M and they said I was the first customer they were aware of who added the blue band and they thought it was a beautiful combo and it might become a standard option. Just think, I may have created my own Flyback version!

 

[RBrylawski]

Thanks Man. Bad thing is that all black dial is starting to really grow on me. Gettin the itch.

Got to get my hands (inspection time) on one of those Chris Wards. Could the watch box handle two more monopushers? :think:

Just sit down with your watches and have a good heart to heart with them. As long as you introduce someone to them with common interests. They'll understand. Honest, they will.

 

[mleok]

Why Thank You! The blue band from B&M, while 'uber' expensive, was just the right option to put on this watch. The band color matches the blue hands perfectly. I ordered the band directly from B&M and they said I was the first customer they were aware of who added the blue band and they thought it was a beautiful combo and it might become a standard option. Just think, I may have created my own Flyback version!

It's nice that they take notice of what their customers are doing to customize their watches, and use that information to update their offerings.

 

[RBrylawski]

It's nice that they take notice of what their customers are doing to customize their watches, and use that information to update their offerings.

I know B&M doesn't get a lot of love here, which is a pity. They make truly beautiful, well made time pieces backed by a company who has been in business doing one thing and one thing only for over a century. Sure, many of their watches have ETA movements, but they're reliable, decorated and modded enough to make them perfect for each watch model in their collection. Their customer service has been beyond exceptional. They've made me feel like a very special person indeed.

 

[mleok]

I know B&M doesn't get a lot of love here, which is a pity. They make truly beautiful, well made time pieces backed by a company who has been in business doing one thing and one thing only for over a century. Sure, many of their watches have ETA movements, but they're reliable, decorated and modded enough to make them perfect for each watch model in their collection. Their customer service has been beyond exceptional. They've made me feel like a very special person indeed.

This is my Baume and Mercier Hampton Annual Calendar, which has an ETA 2892-A2 movement and a Dubois Depraz big date and annual calendar module.

I purchased it for $2K, which was 63% off the $5.5K MSRP. It even dropped to around $1.7K for a bit on Amazon and Gemnation, which is just an absolutely ridiculously low price for a mechanical annual calendar. I can only imagine this is because they're not particularly in high demand, but I don't quite understand why, because they make exceptionally nice watches, and the ETA movements don't bother me if the price is right. The ones which have modified movements or additional complications are nicer still, and their customer service sounds simply divine.

I do wish sometimes that forum members would focus on the enjoyment of watch collecting, as opposed to deeply polarizing discussions like Rolex vs. Omega, ETA vs. in-house, and other such nonsense.

 

[RBrylawski]

This is my Baume and Mercier Hampton Annual Calendar, which has an ETA 2892-A2 movement and a Dubois Depraz big date and annual calendar module.

I purchased it for $2K, which was 63% off the $5.5K MSRP. It even dropped to around $1.7K for a bit on Amazon and Gemnation, which is just an absolutely ridiculously low price for a mechanical annual calendar. I can only imagine this is because they're not particularly in high demand, but I don't quite understand why, because they make exceptionally nice watches, and the ETA movements don't bother me if the price is right. The ones which have modified movements or additional complications are nicer still, and their customer service sounds simply divine.

I do wish sometimes that forum members would focus on the enjoyment of watch collecting, as opposed to deeply polarizing discussions like Rolex vs. Omega, ETA vs. in-house, and other such nonsense.

That's a timeless, elegant and beautiful watch and I couldn't agree with you more!

 

[Roller.959]

This is my Baume and Mercier Hampton Annual Calendar, which has an ETA 2892-A2 movement and a Dubois Depraz big date and annual calendar module.

I purchased it for $2K, which was 63% off the $5.5K MSRP. It even dropped to around $1.7K for a bit on Amazon and Gemnation, which is just an absolutely ridiculously low price for a mechanical annual calendar. I can only imagine this is because they're not particularly in high demand, but I don't quite understand why, because they make exceptionally nice watches, and the ETA movements don't bother me if the price is right. The ones which have modified movements or additional complications are nicer still, and their customer service sounds simply divine.

I do wish sometimes that forum members would focus on the enjoyment of watch collecting, as opposed to deeply polarizing discussions like Rolex vs. Omega, ETA vs. in-house, and other such nonsense.

Mleok, that is a REALLY nice watch. Awesome, and a crushing deal. I'm of the same mind with you and RB WRT B&M. Finishing on B&M is fantastic at the price and a steal at discount.

More on the tool side, ie not as elegant, but since we are voicing some B&M love, I figured I let my DD'd Baume Hampton Square say, "What's up!"





Photo work is also far shoddier than yours.