Miyota 821A

40520 Views 16 Replies 15 Participants Last post by PpaBear, 8 mo ago

atdegs

Discussion Starter · Jul 8, 2017

I'm just looking for some insight into the quality of this movement. I'm looking at an otherwise very well built micro brand watch for $350, used, and have heard less than stellar feedback on this movement. Apparently the second hand stops if you shake it, but this doesn't effect accuracy? This watch also has a display back, which may not be terribly appropriate for this movement? I've had several ETA and Miyota driven autos, and even a vintage Standard Time driven watch, and it's never really made much difference in actual use, but I feel the cost of the watches was appropriate to the movement.

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Pallet Spoon

· #2 · Jul 8, 2017 (Edited)

4

Well, first, the 8215 is a real workhorse. It used to be the darling of the microbrand makers until the 9015 showed up. The 9015 does not have the "stutter" issue you are talking about however, the 8215 can be regulated to be quite accurate. No, the stutter does not affect it's accuracy. The other "downsides", if you want to call them that, is that the 8215 runs at a lower 21,600 beats per hour as opposed to the 28,800 beats per hour of the 9015 and the ETA 2824 for that matter. Also it can not be hacked (stop the second hand when the crown is pulled out). It can be hand wound to start, which is the other feature some lower end movements are lacking but that the 8215 indeed does have.

To me ... for my money, none of the ubiquitous movements have any real eye appeal for a glassback and that includes the 2824 ... with the possible exception of the 2893 which at least has a fair amount of standard factory decoration. Any auto can be dressed up with a decorated rotor. Some makers do it but I have even had 8215 and low end Seiko rotors painted just for interest. I am sure you could apply any graphics to a rotor you wanted with a little patience and a printer. I have actually had a 9015 rotor hand engraved to match the rest of the watch. Anyway, enough on aesthetics - beauty is in the eye of the beholder and there are quite a few threads on here debating the virtues of a see-through back versus a watch without one, usually in favor of a nice factory engraved caseback.

Bottom line is that there is no reason to steer clear of an 8215 driven watch if you can overlook the stutter, which really seems to bother some people. I had sold all of my 8215's but have recently acquired another one. It is a fun, quirky, accurate movement that can be replaced for about 35 bucks compared to about 95 for the 9015 and maybe 175 for the 2824 .... but prices can very pretty widely on the ETA and you have to know what you are buying, mostly because they have been around so long and have been modified heavily both by ETA and watch manufacturers.

Some painted rotor watches long ago sold now ...

8215:

Seiko 7S26

Engraved 9015

Manufacturer decorated 2824 ... one of my favorites actually ...

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Reactions: 5

atdegs

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jul 9, 2017

Wow, that was an incredibly helpful and informative post. Thank you!

Pallet Spoon said:
Well, first, the 8215 is a real workhorse. It used to be the darling of the microbrand makers until the 9015 showed up. The 9015 does not have the "stutter" issue you are talking about however, the 8215 can be regulated to be quite accurate. No, the stutter does not affect it's accuracy. The other "downsides", if you want to call them that, is that the 8215 runs at a lower 21,600 beats per hour as opposed to the 28,800 beats per hour of the 9015 and the ETA 2824 for that matter. Also it can not be hacked (stop the second hand when the crown is pulled out). It can be hand wound to start, which is the other feature some lower end movements are lacking but that the 8215 indeed does have.

To me ... for my money, none of the ubiquitous movements have any real eye appeal for a glassback and that includes the 2824 ... with the possible exception of the 2893 which at least has a fair amount of standard factory decoration. Any auto can be dressed up with a decorated rotor. Some makers do it but I have even had 8215 and low end Seiko rotors painted just for interest. I am sure you could apply any graphics to a rotor you wanted with a little patience and a printer. I have actually had a 9015 rotor hand engraved to match the rest of the watch. Anyway, enough on aesthetics - beauty is in the eye of the beholder and there are quite a few threads on here debating the virtues of a see-through back versus a watch without one, usually in favor of a nice factory engraved caseback.

Bottom line is that there is no reason to steer clear of an 8215 driven watch if you can overlook the stutter, which really seems to bother some people. I had sold all of my 8215's but have recently acquired another one. It is a fun, quirky, accurate movement that can be replaced for about 35 bucks compared to about 95 for the 9015 and maybe 175 for the 2824 .... but prices can very pretty widely on the ETA and you have to know what you are buying, mostly because they have been around so long and have been modified heavily both by ETA and watch manufacturers.

Some painted rotor watches long ago sold now ...

8215:

Seiko 7S26

Engraved 9015

Manufacturer decorated 2824 ... one of my favorites actually ...

Reactions: 1

gangrel

· #4 · Jul 9, 2017

The 82xx is also significantly taller. All heights in mm.

82xx -- 5.67
2824 -- 4.6
9015 -- 3.9
2892 -- 3.6

So you may have a pretty chunky watch.

Mister X

· #5 · Jul 9, 2017 (Edited)

As a new collector I have somewhat limited experience with watches in general, but I happen to have an 821A movement in a Laco Aachen. It was bought new from an AD but only worn occasionally. My example "stutters" that is the seconds hand jumps in .5 to .8 second intervals at the 3:00 position when held vertically. If the watch is rotated so that the 9:00 marker is now where 3:00 would be, again it stutters but at the 9:00 position now. If the watch is held flat, crystal facing up, the seconds hand sweeps much smoother, but certainly not as smooth as my SKX175. In terms of accuracy, it runs 8-10 seconds slow per day, but admittedly with limited use and just enough "winding" to get the watch going.

My reading of discussions online about the 821A or 8215 lead me to believe this movement is somewhat rough, but accurate, given the price point. I'm monitoring the performance of the watch but I'm inclined to simply live with the quirky seconds hand sweep.

yankeexpress

· #6 · Jul 9, 2017

Have a few 8215 in several different brand affordables (interestingly none are Citizens) and they are all reliable, accurate movements. I have never noticed the stutter.

ffritz

· #7 · Jul 9, 2017 (Edited)

Pallet Spoon said:
Bottom line is that there is no reason to steer clear of an 8215 driven watch if you can overlook the stutter, which really seems to bother some people.

^^ This.

The 82xx isn't the most sophisticated or precise movement, but it's super robust, reliable and cheap to replace if you should have a problem, which probably won't happen. Just don't expect chronometer accuracy, and due to the 21600 A/h the seconds hand doesn't move as smoothly as the higher beat 9015s or 2824s.

The seconds hand stutter is a general problem of all indirect drive seconds (including the chrono hand of the Eta 7750). "Indirect" means that the seconds wheel doesn't sit at the center of the movement, but in an off-center position like on watches with a small seconds sub-dial (= the simple and robust design of old pocket watches). The central seconds hand is connected by an extra gear, which means it has some extra play, so the seconds hand can move forward or backward by a few seconds. To prevent this, there is a little spring adding some friction to the pinion. If this spring isn't fine tuned properly, the movement can have some stutter in some positions. Here is a brilliant explanation about what happens: Invicta Seconds Hand Mystery Explained

So it can happen, but it's not very common on the Miyotas as far as I know. Some Vostok movements are a different story, though.. ;-)

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sailon01

· #8 · Jul 10, 2017

atdegs said:
I'm just looking for some insight into the quality of this movement. I'm looking at an otherwise very well built micro brand watch for $350, used, and have heard less than stellar feedback on this movement. Apparently the second hand stops if you shake it, but this doesn't effect accuracy? This watch also has a display back, which may not be terribly appropriate for this movement? I've had several ETA and Miyota driven autos, and even a vintage Standard Time driven watch, and it's never really made much difference in actual use, but I feel the cost of the watches was appropriate to the movement.

I own a Bernhardt with the 8215 movement and its been rock steady, for going on three years mostly. I did have a problem about a year ago where it wasn't auto-winding but ran fine when I hand wound it. I returned it to Bernhardt as it was still under the 2 year warranty and they sent it back within a week and half working properly. As others have said the 8215 is a solid reliable workhorse but isn't a pretty movement which is fine with me as my Bernhardt has a solid caseback. It beats slower than the 9015 or the ETA 2824 but I rarely have to reset it. I'm amazed at the accuracy of this movement, I would say I only re-set after about 2 weeks where it might be a minute fast or so.

atdegs

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jul 11, 2017

Thanks for the input everyone. My trepidations have been allayed.

Robotaz

· #10 · Jul 11, 2017

I have a Bulova Sea King auto and you'd think it had a COSC beast in it if you didn't know it's an 8215. Granted it's been upgraded, but it's impressive as the Miyota that it is.

I've had several of them. They fake hack fine and can keep great time. I prefer them over several Swiss movements.

Reactions: 2

MarkinKC

· #11 · Sep 28, 2020

I have a question about the Miyota 821A. If the second hand occasionally stops moving, how can you time it?

LosAngelesTimer

· #12 · Sep 28, 2020

I'm going to go against the grain here and say I wouldn't own a watch with a Miyota 8-series. If it were a car engine, I'd refer to the level of refinement (or lack thereof) as "agricultural." Sure it's reliable but it's rattly and clunky in pretty much every respect. There are plenty of options these days to step up to a watch with a Miyota 9-series or an NH35 for similar money.

Reactions: 1

fastfras

· #13 · Sep 28, 2020 (Edited)

LosAngelesTimer said:
I'm going to go against the grain here and say I wouldn't own a watch with a Miyota 8-series. If it were a car engine, I'd refer to the level of refinement (or lack thereof) as "agricultural." Sure it's reliable but it's rattly and clunky in pretty much every respect. There are plenty of options these days to step up to a watch with a Miyota 9-series or an NH35 for similar money.

I agree with LATimer, it's the tractor engine of movements. I also question some of the claims it's an accurate movement. I've never had an accurate miyota 8 series movement, usually find them 8 - 10 seconds per day, currently own one that's at least 20 SPD. Add the non hacking feature and, well, it is what is.

That said, they are the tractor engine of movements and, like actual tractor engines, run reliably for a long time. I'm not trying to dissuade you of purchasing the watch, if you like it, go for it.

EDIT: Hmmm, just realized this thread is 3 years old, fool me twice...

INAMINUTE

· #14 · Sep 28, 2020

fastfras said:
I agree with LATimer, it's the tractor engine of movements. I also question some of the claims it's an accurate movement. I've never had an accurate miyota 8 series movement, usually find them 8 - 10 seconds per day, currently own one that's at least 20 SPD. Add the non hacking feature and, well, it is what is.

That said, they are the tractor engine of movements and, like actual tractor engines, run reliably for a long time. I'm not trying to dissuade you of purchasing the watch, if you like it, go for it.

EDIT: Hmmm, just realized this thread is 3 years old, fool me twice...

I only now own the one watch with a Miyota movement. Mine has the 821a. although I have had many 8215's. The difference only being the hacking facility. Some people moan about a noisy rota, I have never noticed it when wearing it. Yes, there can be a slight stutter, but big deal. Mine runs at +2 SPD, but I can't remember if I regulated it or not. The NH35 is now a more first choice for most manufacturers making less expensive watches, but the Miyota is fine. The 9015 movements are excellent.

Reactions: 1

BalooBalance

· #15 · Jul 2, 2021

My 821 IRON ANNIE is incomprehensibly, incredily accurate. Alters only 1-2 sec per day, mostly zero (!). This is the newer, hackable movement. But my Zeppelin Atlantic's 821 "accuracy" is a horrible +/- 40 s/d.

Migraneur

· #16 · Jul 2, 2021

Some of the 821 movements--I have one from Baltic--do hack.

PpaBear

· #17 · 8 mo ago

I' ve been asking myself if you could upgrade the miyota 821a with a day disc from an 8200. Saw an nice day date vintage citizen 4, and if I could fit the day disc maybe I'dd purchase it. That poor thing needs new movement and bracelet and some love, which it will get from me.

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