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Anyone who collects and wears an auto winder watch knows it's limitations as far as accuracy goes. My rotation includes mostly low beat Russians, but about 3 years ago I bought my first micro brand, a Helson Shark Diver. I now have 7 micros with the 9015. The 9015 was a movement I wanted to explore, meaning get it on the bench and disassemble it. I read all about it, pros and cons. It took some time to get the nerve to open on up because I did not want to loose a part or screw it up. I need not worry, they are painfully easy to work on. In recent thread I showed how well the 9015 performs but my latest purchase has blown me away.

Last Tuesday I bought a new Aevig Valkyr in bronze case. I did not have time for good photos this week but wanted to open it up and regulate it. It was in spec. but I can't help but tinker with it. I regulated it in 6 positions and thought nothing of it. Finally, a day to relax I check it to see how it's doing. I'm not an accuracy nut but I check watches against a known source. My OCD, ADD, obsessive brain can't leave it alone. Here it is 85 hours later and it's running +1s.

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Difficult to categorise this movement, "affordable workhorse" is what I started with, but the accuracy has been the real surprise. I'm nowhere near OCD when it comes to watches (I don't set the date on my autos) but I do expect that they will be close enough to the correct time when needed.
 

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I've got a Deep Blue with the NH36 movement (date at 3 crown at 4) and after a week it's running 9 seconds total fast. It's amazing how accurate basic movements can be.
 

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I’ve got a couple of watches with the 9015 in them and they seem to perform well but I don’t mind admitting that any attempt at accuracy by manufacturers is wasted on me. If it’s sorta right then I’m happy. Saying that though I’m glad the 9015 performed for you when you cracked the whip a little.
 

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Difficult to categorise this movement, "affordable workhorse" is what I started with, but the accuracy has been the real surprise...
Because it is so affordable it will probably make more sense to replace it than to service it when the time comes. My knock is not on the movement, but on the watchmakers that are using it for watches that have a price point above $500. People are paying $500 to $1000 or more for a watch with a one and done movement. That would bother me. I wonder how long the "service" interval will be? I flipped my only watch with a 9015 so I will never find out.
 

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I have to agree with you, it's an excellent movement, takes a licking and keeps on ticking. For me it's any version of the ETA 289X, they perform for many years with amazingly good timekeeping, even off the wrist.
 

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Have 14 watches with 9015.
They are among my favorites for being smooth sweeping, accurate, reliable and affordable.
Like them far more than the low beat Seiko in the same price range for the smoother sweep.

Expect they may surprise us all with longevity.





















Titanium Tempest

 

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Because it is so affordable it will probably make more sense to replace it than to service it when the time comes. My knock is not on the movement, but on the watchmakers that are using it for watches that have a price point above $500. People are paying $500 to $1000 or more for a watch with a one and done movement. That would bother me. I wonder how long the "service" interval will be? I flipped my only watch with a 9015 so I will never find out.
There's more to a watch than the movement. And it's hardly "one and done".

It's a movement that can run for years without servicing, unlike comparable Swiss movements that don't perform as well, and need routine service to perform at all. I'd take a 9015 over any entry-level Swiss movement at twice the price.

The businesses that make and sell the watches need to earn a profit to stay in business and provide post-sale support. That means they need to price appropriately. But the good news is we're all free to buy what we like, so there's no need for you to be bothered.
 

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There's more to a watch than the movement. And it's hardly "one and done".

It's a movement that can run for years without servicing, unlike comparable Swiss movements that don't perform as well, and need routine service to perform at all. I'd take a 9015 over any entry-level Swiss movement at twice the price.

The businesses that make and sell the watches need to earn a profit to stay in business and provide post-sale support. That means they need to price appropriately. But the good news is we're all free to buy what we like, so there's no need for you to be bothered.
... Said the guy who sells $600 watches with $89 movements
 

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... Said the guy who sells $600 watches with $89 movements
Absolutely.

Like I said, there's more to a watch than the movement, and the business that sells the watch has to earn a profit. Otherwise, what's the point?


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... Said the guy who sells $600 watches with $89 movements
I'm pretty sure that was his point. You made an implicit jab at him. He came to defend the practice.

I, frankly, think your opinion is fair. I don't ascribe to it primarily because of the points Docvail brings up, but I think you're in good company with folks who want subject movement qualities (Swiss, or chronometer, or decorations) at that increasingly high micro entry point.

The implication that it's dishonest, sleazy, or some other form of bad trade, is probably what gets folks hackles up. We all have different priorities, and most of us here are educated enough to do that with our watch acquisitions.


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... Said the guy who sells $600 watches with $89 movements
I have 6 of his watches and haven’t paid anywhere near $600 for any of them yet, average is less than $500.
 

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Like I said, there's more to a watch than the movement, and the business that sells the watch has to earn a profit. Otherwise, what's the point?
Well, I would argue that the point is bang for the buck, not your right to profit. You seem to be justifying the use of a cheap movement, and your bottom line, by claiming that your case and bracelet are superior. Let us leave that claim unchallenged for the moment. No matter what the exterior offers in the way of bells and whistles, what is under the hood is just as, if not more important for longevity. After all, is that not what separates quality from the herd? I can buy a Glycine Combat Sub with an ETA 2824-2 (the same movement used in many Tudor watches) for under $500. This watch has outstanding exterior work, and a superior movement, yet it cost significantly less than yours. There are many other such examples. If your answer is don't go by what is inside, and that your profits come first... thanks, but no thanks!
 

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Well, I would argue that the point is bang for the buck, not your right to profit. You seem to be justifying the use of a cheap movement, and your bottom line, by claiming that your case and bracelet are superior. Let us leave that claim unchallenged for the moment. No matter what the exterior offers in the way of bells and whistles, what is under the hood is just as, if not more important for longevity. After all, is that not what separates quality from the herd? I can buy a Glycine Combat Sub with an ETA 2824-2 (the same movement used in many Tudor watches) for under $500. This watch has outstanding exterior work, and a superior movement, yet it cost significantly less than yours. There are many other such examples. If your answer is don't go by what is inside, and that your profits come first... thanks, but no thanks!
Nope, not what I'm saying at all.

It's your money, and you can spend it how you like. If you prefer an ETA over the 9015, that's your preference. And even if I know the 9015 is a better movement all around, I may not be able to persuade you otherwise. I stopped trying to get people to give up their biases using logic, so your preferences are yours to keep and hold dear, for as long as you like.

Yes, you can get a Tudor Black Bay with a fairly basic ETA in it, and people pay Tudor prices for them.

Is it a ripoff?

I assume people buy them because they like the total package. Other people don't, and I suspect that's a large part of why Tudor went to an in-house movement, just like the lack of market appreciation for the 9015 drives me and other manufacturers to use more expensive movements, even if they don't perform as well (and from what I understand, the Tudor movement doesn't perform as well as the ETA, even though it and the watch now cost more).

I don't need to justify anything. Bang for the buck is subjective, and opinions vary. I can assure you the 9015 is the bang for the buck champ, and most of my customers will tell you we offer a lot of bang for the buck. But again, I don't see the point in trying to persuade you otherwise if your mind is made up.

There's more to the watch than the movement, indeed more than the movement, bracelet and case. There's a lot that goes into it, as well as providing pre- and post-sale support. I didn't say I have a *right* to earn a profit, I said businesses NEED to earn a profit, in order to stay in business and support their customers.

Costs put a floor under what I can charge. Design, quality and service push what I can charge up. But market forces put a ceiling on prices. So if my prices were out of line, it would be obvious to me and everyone else. I'm currently sold out of just about everything I've ever produced. That's a good sign my prices aren't out of line.

I've owned a Glycine Combat Sub, and I'd agree it's a very nice watch for $500. More than that, I'd say it's not worth it, and it was dramatically overpriced when they were selling for $800+ not too many years ago. But that's just my opinion, and yours may differ.

Like I said, ultimately it's your money, and you can spend it how you wish. If you don't like the value proposition in what I'm offering, and some people don't, you're free not to buy, so there's no reason for you to be bothered by my prices or the movements in our watches. I honestly want you and everyone else to just buy what you like and enjoy what you have.


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Nope, not what I'm saying at all.
Forgive me if I point out the obvious. A really long rant isn't going to change it. It is exactly what you said... or should we remind folks?

Originally Posted by docvail

Like I said, there's more to a watch than the movement, and the business that sells the watch has to earn a profit. Otherwise, what's the point?
 
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