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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The majority of micro brands popular here cut corners by using unmodified date movements in so-called “no-date” watches. (Actually, these are really date watches with the date function simply covered up). So you end up with a watch with no date on the dial, but a fully intact date mechanism underneath, including a ‘click’ when the date turns over and an extra crown setting position. This defeats the purpose of a no-date movement – a simpler, cleaner movement with fewer parts and points of failure. I emailed several micro brands popular here and they all admitted to doing this. A couple even admitted that they don’t modify the movement in any way: no removal of the calendar disc, wheels, or gears. We all have our hang-ups, but this is an absolute deal killer for me.

What’s worse is that micro brands have options to source or make true no-date movements, but they’re either too lazy or don’t believe the customer is willing to pay a small premium to have a watch made properly. Miyota makes the 90S5, a no date version of the 9015. ETA does not make an off-the-shelf, no-date version of the 2824, but the movement can be easily converted, although you are still left with a base plate that has groves and holes for the calendar complication. (Sellita may make a true no-date version of the 2824 but I am unsure). Kudos to Halios for going the extra mile and sourcing a true no-date movement for their upcoming Seaforth. Another micro said that since their latest model comes in both a date and no-date version, it was easier to use one movement. It's easier, but a no-date watch should have a no-date movement. And they're selling this rubbish for over $500!

IMHO a date mechanism under a no-date dial is unacceptable for any watch over $30. It’s just chintzy bollocks. I hope others here feel the same and let micros know the next time they try to cover up a date mechanism and pass this rubbish on to us.

Rant over

**On a side note, Spanish forum Relojes Especiales is making a new forum watch using the new Eterna Caliber 39. Unlike the outdated and ubiquitous 2824, the Caliber 39 is a modern, next generation movement with 65-hours power reserve and is actually sized for modern watches (not 1970s watches) at 30mm (v. 25.6mm for the 2824). Hopefully others will start to use this movement. Rumor is that ETA has been hit hard by the watch recession and is selling anything and everything to all takers.
 

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I'm perfectly fine with a no date watch that has the date hiding. In fact, I find it pointless to charge me more because of the process of removing the date wheel or because they paid more for a different dateless movement.

Reminds me of the Florjn's without cyclops. He couldn't sell them with cyclops and wants to charge customers to remove them before shipping, if they choose. Bad idea.

It doesn't bother me one bit. I wish I had more.





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It doesn't matter to me either, however, if the 90S5 is available why wouldn't they use these instead of the 9015 (assuming they were using the 9015 in the date model)?
 

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The majority of micro brands popular here cut corners by using unmodified date movements in so-called “no-date” watches. (Actually, these are really date watches with the date function simply covered up). So you end up with a watch with no date on the dial, but a fully intact date mechanism underneath, including a ‘click’ when the date turns over and an extra crown setting position. This defeats the purpose of a no-date movement – a simpler, cleaner movement with fewer parts and points of failure. I emailed several micro brands popular here and they all admitted to doing this. A couple even admitted that they don’t modify the movement in any way: no removal of the calendar disc, wheels, or gears. We all have our hang-ups, but this is an absolute deal killer for me.

What’s worse is that micro brands have options to source or make true no-date movements, but they’re either too lazy or don’t believe the customer is willing to pay a small premium to have a watch made properly. Miyota makes the 90S5, a no date version of the 9015. ETA does not make an off-the-shelf, no-date version of the 2824, but the movement can be easily converted, although you are still left with a base plate that has groves and holes for the calendar complication. (Sellita may make a true no-date version of the 2824 but I am unsure). Kudos to Halios for going the extra mile and sourcing a true no-date movement for their upcoming Seaforth. Another micro said that since their latest model comes in both a date and no-date version, it was easier to use one movement. It's easier, but a no-date watch should have a no-date movement. And they're selling this rubbish for over $500!

IMHO a date mechanism under a no-date dial is unacceptable for any watch over $30. It’s just chintzy bollocks. I hope others here feel the same and let micros know the next time they try to cover up a date mechanism and pass this rubbish on to us.

Rant over

**On a side note, Spanish forum Relojes Especiales is making a new forum watch using the new Eterna Caliber 39. Unlike the outdated and ubiquitous 2824, the Caliber 39 is a modern, next generation movement with 65-hours power reserve and is actually sized for modern watches (not 1970s watches) at 30mm (v. 25.6mm for the 2824). Hopefully others will start to use this movement. Rumor is that ETA has been hit hard by the watch recession and is selling anything and everything to all takers.
My lord.... of all the hang ups one could have I didn't think this would be one of them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
picsart_1430097508608_by_nanithepegasister-d8r7d10.jpg

I'm perfectly fine with a no date watch that has the date hiding. In fact, I find it pointless to charge me more because of the process of removing the date wheel or because they paid more for a different dateless movement.

Reminds me of the Florjn's without cyclops. He couldn't sell them with cyclops and wants to charge customers to remove them before shipping, if they choose. Bad idea.

It doesn't bother me one bit. I wish I had more.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I really, really can't understand that this does NOT bother one person, let alone three. REALLY? Having a date mechanism covered up by a dial. How cheap and crappy do you want your watches? No wonder I'm gravitating more towards in-house Tudor and Nomos. They wouldn't pull crap like this. Ever. I'm suddenly appreciating Rolex. At least the 114060 has a different movement from the 116610.
 

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I really, really can't understand that this does NOT bother one person, let alone three. REALLY? Having a date mechanism covered up by a dial. How cheap and crappy do you want your watches? No wonder I'm gravitating more towards in-house Tudor and Nomos. They wouldn't pull crap like this. Ever. I'm suddenly appreciating Rolex. At least the 114060 has a different movement from the 116610.
I could not agree with you more.
 

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I don't think I share with you the extent of your disdain for date complications, but I do agree that selling a watch as no-date when it does have a date complication is cause for alarm.
 

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I'm (personally) willing to give micro-brands some leeway - I mean we're talking hundreds (if not thousands of dollars) in discrepancies regarding many micro-brands, and Tudor/Nomos. The fact that one even mention micro-brands and Tudor/Nomos in the same sentence speaks volumes about the value:cost ratio that some micro-brands bring to the table.

I won't try to detract from your sentiment though Pinky, or minimize how you feel. Subjectively we all have our bottom-lines. You won't have to settle, thankfully, as you mentioned there are more options - whether it be the new reloj en los foros espanoles, or Nomos/Tudor.

Cheers to all
 

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As I usually opt for the date display dial if it's an option I've only got one watch that has a knowingly hidden date wheel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
I agree. However, based on my knowledge of how micros operate I don't think it's too much to ask, or too much of a premium, for a $500+ no-date watch to have a no-date movement. I could see that at the $100-$200 price point there's a better argument to excuse covering up a date wheel.

I've owned many, many $300-$900 micros and currently have two modern Tudors and a Nomos. I expect there to be noticeable differences in finishing between the former and latter and of course there are. That said, when I spend $500 on a watch there are certain basics I expect. I don't expect the case and movement to be finished to the same standard as my Pelagos. I do expect the manufacturer to make sure a 90S5 is used for a no-date dial instead of a 9015. That's all (among the other basic expectations of a $500 mechanical watch).

I'm (personally) willing to give micro-brands some leeway - I mean we're talking hundreds (if not thousands of dollars) in discrepancies regarding many micro-brands, and Tudor/Nomos. The fact that one even mention micro-brands and Tudor/Nomos in the same sentence speaks volumes about the value:cost ratio that some micro-brands bring to the table.

I won't try to detract from your sentiment though Pinky, or minimize how you feel. Subjectively we all have our bottom-lines. You won't have to settle, thankfully, as you mentioned there are more options - whether it be the new reloj en los foros espanoles, or Nomos/Tudor.

Cheers to all
 

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I completely agree. It drives me nuts and I've wondered about this for a long time.

But I've succumbed to it for a few reasons.

1.) My watch budget is in the mid- to low- range of affordable. If I were too picky, I would be in a constant state purchase paralysis.

2.) Other features/attributes of the watch out-weigh that one thing.

3.) This one doesn't apply anymore, but at first I figured it's not that big of deal since nobody else is saying anything about it.
 
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I ONLY have "No Date (Display)" watches, and frankly, I'm GLAD that date wheel is under there, since *I* now believe that it somehow "transmits" the date to me telepathically, which is why I ALWAYS know what the date is even w/o the date display...

I'm glad you brought this to my attention - mystery SOLVED!
 

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Have you owned a Microbrand ? Here are mine and not once do I care about the engine or anything under the dial. I just love staring at my watches.


























On the other hand I can understand you. Some people care about accuracy, I don't. Why? Because I wear 2-5 watches a day, depending if I work or not so they all seem COSC accurate compared to my cell phone, even if it's 5-55 seconds fast. I'd never notice anyways, unless it's a 2 minute difference.

So we all don't care about the same things. I'm more about the eye candy versus price paid than anything. I need to love them visually, first and foremost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Have you owned a Microbrand ?
I answered that question in my follow-up posts. I'll clarify here: I've lost track of the number of micro brands I've owned and currently have three with a Zelos Hammerhead on the way.

...not once do I care about the engine or anything under the dial. I just love staring at my watches.

I'm more about the eye candy...
Well alrighty then...we have nothing to argue about and little to discuss. Thank you for your honesty. Indeed, we all gain satisfaction from different things and to different degrees, be they books or movies, or the aesthetics of your watch compared to the movement that you cannot see that makes it run.

To other readers: the longer I'm in this hobby, the more I become interested in movements: how they work; their strengths, weaknesses, benefits; engineering trade-offs; etc. As of late - as I stare into my watch box and see numerous ETA 2824 powered watches - I'm also looking for greater movement diversity. That's why I made the note about the new Eterna Caliber 39.

It's also interesting to note that several decades ago ETA made quite a few no-date movements which even had no-date specific base plates. In fact I recently picked up a vintage 2871 for a build project but that's another story.
 

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I answered that question in my follow-up posts. I'll clarify here: I've lost track of the number of micro brands I've owned and currently have three with a Zelos Hammerhead on the way.



Well alrighty then...we have nothing to argue about and little to discuss. Thank you for your honesty. Indeed, we all gain satisfaction from different things and to different degrees, be they books or movies, or the aesthetics of your watch compared to the movement that you cannot see that makes it run.

To other readers: the longer I'm in this hobby, the more I become interested in movements: how they work; their strengths, weaknesses, benefits; engineering trade-offs; etc. As of late - as I stare into my watch box and see numerous ETA 2824 powered watches - I'm also looking for greater movement diversity. That's why I made the note about the new Eterna Caliber 39.

It's also interesting to note that several decades ago ETA made quite a few no-date movements which even had no-date specific base plates. In fact I recently picked up a vintage 2871 for a build project but that's another story.
Fantastic post. Watch quality is about the movement and design. If they don't have both then we are just buying consumer crap pumped out for the masses. I'm with you 100%. For example I love the look of the upcoming SAS SEA-02 but why cheapen the design process by bunging in a modified 9015 when there is a dateless version of the miyota available?
 

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Doesn't affect me as I always order with date if possible. I was expecting on discussion about cheap packaging or rough finishing and imperfections on micros.
 

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Put me in the camp that doesn't want to pay extra (and the lower price range) to remove something that's hidden anyway.

I don't see it as a big deal.
Point is why pay extra when an alternative movement is available? Or pay for something you don't use? For example how about a car that came with A/C fitted but a blanking plate over the switch...
 
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