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Discussion Starter #1
As we know, the day will soon come when the Giant empire of Swatch ends the sale of their movements outside the Swatch Group.

What are Ball's plans for the future...as the bulk of their calibers if not all are ETA or ETA bases?
 

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As we know, the day will soon come when the Giant empire of Swatch ends the sale of their movements outside the Swatch Group.

What are Ball's plans for the future...as the bulk of their calibers if not all are ETA or ETA bases?
Good question. When is Swatch going to do that? Better get my Ball before that happens. Man, I didn't know that. That's a scary thought!

Watcheye
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Good question. When is Swatch going to do that? Better get my Ball before that happens. Man, I didn't know that. That's a scary thought!

Watcheye
It is currently slated to occur in 2010. I see Ball has a few models that are modified from ETA bases. Sellita is a company that is ramping up to try to take this business and two of their movements, the SW 200 and 300 are seen often. The 200 is like their 2824 and the 300, their 2892 if you would. Sellita at one point reworked and modified ETA movements.

Not a lot is known about the long term of these movements, but they are the only thing I have really seen come out of Switzerland to handle this arena.

Dubois Depraz also comes to mind. Not sure they can handle the world, but they can handle Ball, and I believe that several of the Ball movements feature Dubois Depraz modules, such as my Moonie (not sure about the NT, but it does bear the caliber name Ball 124 and is a modified 2824, not sure by whom at this point)
 

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My understanding, based on wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_SA ), is that it is ébauches (movement blanks) that they are restricting the supply of, and will then supply only fully assembled watch movements ... but I don't know what impact that will have on the industry and Ball.
In an amicable settlement, ETA committed to supply the ébauches until the end of 2008 at the current volume and thereafter for two additional years at a reduced volume. This will create a situation in which alternative production plants may be set up. The regulators said the agreement gives small watch making companies in Switzerland enough time to adapt to the market and find new producers.
--Keith
 

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My understanding, based on wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_SA ), is that it is ébauches (movement blanks) that they are restricting the supply of, and will then supply only fully assembled watch movements ... but I don't know what impact that will have on the industry and Ball.
--Keith
Interesting. Can't Ball then just take the assembled ETA movements and modify them for themselves? If I am understanding you right.

Watcheye.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Interesting. Can't Ball then just take the assembled ETA movements and modify them for themselves? If I am understanding you right.

Watcheye.

If the ebauches are available, than yep, it can be done. Now I wonder if the 2836 in my Moonie came as an Ebauche before the mods, and ditto for 2824 in my NT.

Their respective movement calibers are Ball 968 and Ball 124, so enough has been done to give the movements their own name...but did they start as movement blanks?
 

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If the ebauches are available, than yep, it can be done. Now I wonder if the 2836 in my Moonie came as an Ebauche before the mods, and ditto for 2824 in my NT.

Their respective movement calibers are Ball 968 and Ball 124, so enough has been done to give the movements their own name...but did they start as movement blanks?
What do you mean by Ebauche, it that some type of ETA movement?

Watcheye.
 

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As we know, the day will soon come when the Giant empire of Swatch ends the sale of their movements outside the Swatch Group.

What are Ball's plans for the future...as the bulk of their calibers if not all are ETA or ETA bases?
This may be far fetched, but wouldn't it be cool if Ball started making their own movements? A Ball with an in house movement would be really nice. Of course it would probably increase the price of the watches, but people would still buy them.


Regards
Bob:thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #9
What do you mean by Ebauche, it that some type of ETA movement?

Watcheye.

it was brought up by Caribbean Soul in his quote...it is the term for movement blank in French (I think)

this is the term that has caught on...
 

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I could be wrong, here, but isn't an ebauche basically a movement provided in a kit form? You get the platform and all the parts, and then you put it together, adding whatever modifications you desire...?

I think it would be very cool if Ball should decide to become a watch manufacture, with all of their own in-house movements. It would be my guess that that would raise the retail pricing of their watches, significantly, though...but it would also elevate Ball Watch into a different class, horologically speaking. b-)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I would like to see Ball evolve in that manner and is one of the reasons I selected watches that have had sufficient mod's as to be renamed as a Ball Caliber.
 

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I think it would be very cool if Ball should decide to become a watch manufacture, with all of their own in-house movements. It would be my guess that that would raise the retail pricing of their watches, significantly, though...but it would also elevate Ball Watch into a different class, horologically speaking. b-)
One of the guys from BALL will jump in to confirm. Marc Ofte and I discussed this during the Museum tour and I believe there will be some positives to report in this development!

I'm all for it! :-!
 

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Do not leave the Chinese out this discussion!! They are making excellent progress in producing very good movements. They will certainly be looking to get into the European watch movement market. (in fact they are already there)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Do not leave the Chinese out this discussion!! They are making excellent progress in producing very good movements. They will certainly be looking to get into the European watch movement market. (in fact they are already there)

That would upset me for Ball Chris, and might even result in the sale of a Ball by me.

The Swiss are moving toward rules that a watch will now have to be 80% Swiss to remain Swiss Made.

I have a chinese movement or two, and I have no issue with them, but it is not a direction that I would be too happy about Ball taking. I guess I am an old tradionalist, but I like my fine watches to be Swiss and German (my Italian Anonimo, being the exception)
 

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Scott, I believe that is 80% of the VALUE added to the time piece must originate in Switzerland....so (from what I've read elsewhere), right now a cheaper Chinese movement can be used in a Swiss watch and still say "Swiss Made" since most of the value of the watch comes from the cost of Swiss labor to assemble, test, etc etc. It is already happening in Germany. Some lower-end German made watches use Asian (Chinese/Japanese) movments thus the term "Germasian" you may have heard.
The Chinese are coming to Switzerland with their movements----get ready.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
the future...

Accordingly, any mechanical watch in which at least 80% of the production cost is attributable to operations carried out in Switzerland would be considered as a mechanical Swiss watch. For other watches, particularly electronic watches, this rate would be 60%. Technical construction and prototype development would moreover need to be carried out in Switzerland. Raw materials, precious stones and the battery would be excluded from the production cost. The Swiss movement in the existing ordinance already has a value criterion, namely the rate of 50%. Considering that here, too, the definition needs reinforcing, the draft amends these value criteria. For mechanical movements therefore, the rate would be at least 80% of the value of all constituent parts. For other movements, particularly electronic movements, this rate would be 60%. Technical construction and prototype development in Switzerland would also be a requirement in this case. The draft also stipulates other provisions concerning the definition of Swiss constituent parts and assembly in Switzerland.
 

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Just my guess but it will be Sellita filling the void for many makers.
You really don't want Ball being a "manufacture" unless your pockets are far deeper than mine.
 
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