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Discussion Starter #1
Does someone have definitive information on the (Roamer) MST 44/28 jewel automatic movements? I have several and they perform well. How do they rate against, for example, an Omega Constellation or other high-end movements?

There is little on the web on this subject, Roamer being a quiet achiever in its hayday.

I'd really appreciate some knowledgeable input on this.

Best wishes for 2007.

JohnW
 

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I am slightly biased , of course...;-)

The MST470 in 44 jewel form is quite something. It was the result of the 50s - 60s completion amongst manufacturers along the lines of 'more jewels must be better'. The 471 added the date function. Their first 44 jewel auto (the MST436 or 437 with date) was slightly superior IMHO and was to some extent built regardless of cost to steal the limelight on their competitors. The 470/471 was a development of that and not so finely finished, but is still way above Roamer's usual price point for the time. The 28 jewel versions are also pretty fine, but were fitted in less expensive watches. The 436/437 was itself developed from the 420, Roamer's first auto and a 21 jewel movement. All of the movements are quite robust and if serviced are still very accurate. (I have a 420 that runs beautifully).

The 420 is 18000bph, the others 21600bph. Their later models (the 5xx series) were much more 'built to a price' though they did introduce hacking and quickset dates.

Roamer were marketed at a lower quality and price point than Omega and most of the watches are more 'workaday' than the contemporary Omegas. The 44 jewel autos are the exception to that IMHO. If you can find good examples they are great value. They are quite hard to find though.

I wanna see pictures!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I am slightly biased , of course...;-)

The MST470 in 44 jewel form is quite something. It was the result of the 50s - 60s completion amongst manufacturers along the lines of 'more jewels must be better'. The 471 added the date function. Their first 44 jewel auto (the MST436 or 437 with date) was slightly superior IMHO and was to some extent built regardless of cost to steal the limelight on their competitors. The 470/471 was a development of that and not so finely finished, but is still way above Roamer's usual price point for the time. The 28 jewel versions are also pretty fine, but were fitted in less expensive watches. The 436/437 was itself developed from the 420, Roamer's first auto and a 21 jewel movement. All of the movements are quite robust and if serviced are still very accurate. (I have a 420 that runs beautifully).

The 420 is 18000bph, the others 21600bph. Their later models (the 5xx series) were much more 'built to a price' though they did introduce hacking and quickset dates.

Roamer were marketed at a lower quality and price point than Omega and most of the watches are more 'workaday' than the contemporary Omegas. The 44 jewel autos are the exception to that IMHO. If you can find good examples they are great value. They are quite hard to find though.

I wanna see pictures!
I'll get my act together with camera ere long! I don't have the means to open them, although my Rotodate 44 has been serviced (I should have photographed it when in pieces). I have an externally weary Stingray 44 that works very nicely.

My wife uses a Stingray S (lady's version of the diver's watch, with a "471" serial number) that also works beautifully - I presume it has a miniature version of the same movement. I bought it on Ebay a few years back and have never seen another.

Thanks for the quick response. Your web name suggests my part of the world - I remember well having quolls in a bushwalking camp in SW Tassie a few years back.

Cheers

JohnW
 

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Glad to help. I am living in the UK at the moment but planning to move back in a year or so.

I had a Rotopower 44 (MST 436) with a damaged dial that I sold on. Right now I have a 50s Rotopower with the MST420:



and a 1960 Rotodate with an MST441 (a less interesting movement than we have been discussing):



Both looked less tidy when I got them. I am still on the lookout for the perfect Rotopower 44!

The Stingray models are quite sought after, especially the full diver versions. The ladies version probably has an MST472 or 473 which are developments of ETA movements. If you can find one, they also had a chrono version of the Stingray (with a non in-house movement) in the late 60s/early 70s which seems to be the most sought after of all.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Glad to help. I am living in the UK at the moment but planning to move back in a year or so.

I had a Rotopower 44 (MST 436) with a damaged dial that I sold on. Right now I have a 50s Rotopower with the MST420 and a 1960 Rotodate with an MST441 (a less interesting movement than we have been discussing) Both looked less tidy when I got them. I am still on the lookout for the perfect Rotopower 44!

The Stingray models are quite sought after, especially the full diver versions. The ladies version probably has an MST472 or 473 which are developments of ETA movements. If you can find one, they also had a chrono version of the Stingray (with a non in-house movement) in the late 60s/early 70s which seems to be the most sought after of all.
Thanks for that. Lovely Rotodate - I read the thread about it the other day.

There are almost always Stingray Chronos around on ebay but they don't appeal to me personally. I do have a near new Stingray Diver watch. That one as well as my wife's both have 471 at the start of the serial number, although they are dramatically different sizes.

I'm wearing a day-date Mustang currently, with a nice white dial that is so clearly legible, with a "478" serial number and which keeps time to maybe 1 minute in 3 days.

Must be a camera day.....

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Discussion Starter #6
The ladies version probably has an MST472 or 473 which are developments of ETA movements. If you can find one, they also had a chrono version of the Stingray (with a non in-house movement) in the late 60s/early 70s which seems to be the most sought after of all.
Further check. You are quite right, the lady's Stingray S has an MST473 - I had misread/forgotten the back numbering.

Now to load some photos.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Glad to help.
A few photos as you requested/hinted......

The lady's Stingray S is 26 mm from side to side, excluding the knob for the rotating bezel, whereas the "normal" one is 36 mm.

I have a bit to learn about photographing these things - I take it you used strong oblique light for the excellent photo of the Rotodate?
 

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Wow! This first alarm anfibio (it is alarm, isn't it?) is great!
But also the rest of the collection is very nice - congrats!

Cheers,

Axel
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Wow! This first alarm anfibio (it is alarm, isn't it?) is great!
But also the rest of the collection is very nice - congrats!

Cheers,

Axel
Many thanks Axel. It is indeed an alarm Anfibio - pretty standard 17J alarm movement from those times, but the only one I've seen.

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A few photos as you requested/hinted......

The lady's Stingray S is 26 mm from side to side, excluding the knob for the rotating bezel, whereas the "normal" one is 36 mm.

I have a bit to learn about photographing these things - I take it you used strong oblique light for the excellent photo of the Rotodate?
Here is mine :) :

The year of production is: 1967-1968
The price at the time was: CHF. 110.50

Have a nice day,

Chris
 

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I'm a bit late coming back to this thread.

I have not seen an Anfibio alarm before either - and I love that Rotodate, John. I suspect it is late 50s/very early 60s. I have been looking at the price of the diver-style Stingrays. They are getting pretty pricey. There is a chrono version on the bay going north of $1000.

Chris, that late 60s Stingray 44 is a beauty. That dates from the same period as the plain early Anfibio's, before the more chunky case styles became fashionable. I wonder what CHF 110.50 would be in today's money?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Here is mine :) :

The year of production is: 1967-1968
The price at the time was: CHF. 110.50

Have a nice day,

Chris
Very nice Chris. I have one like that, chrome and nicely simple and round, "not chunky" (but it is in need of attention so doesn't yet look as nice as yours) and a couple of gold plated ones, one looking very worn and working perfectly and one looking quite reasonable and not working properly. A little Ebay indulgence here and there, with the aim of having one really nice one.

I've decided to get one of the Stingray 44s overhauled properly and put it into regular use. Photos in a few months.....

I also wonder how much CHF 110 in 1967 is equivalent to in today's money!

Cheers

JohnW
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'm a bit late coming back to this thread.

I have not seen an Anfibio alarm before either - and I love that Rotodate, John. I suspect it is late 50s/very early 60s. I have been looking at the price of the diver-style Stingrays. They are getting pretty pricey. There is a chrono version on the bay going north of $1000.


Chris, that late 60s Stingray 44 is a beauty. That dates from the same period as the plain early Anfibio's, before the more chunky case styles became fashionable. I wonder what CHF 110.50 would be in today's money?
I was watching that chrono and tempted for completeness, but then $1200 for a watch that doesn't quite do it for me isn't so smart - I should try and find a Valjoux chrono in a nicer (to me) housing. Any suggestions?

The Anfibio alarm seems to me to be a Roamer-badged version of many other alarms with that movement of that era. I do like it though.

Cheers

JohnW
 

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Very nice Chris. I have one like that, chrome and nicely simple and round, "not chunky" (but it is in need of attention so doesn't yet look as nice as yours) and a couple of gold plated ones, one looking very worn and working perfectly and one looking quite reasonable and not working properly. A little Ebay indulgence here and there, with the aim of having one really nice one.

I've decided to get one of the Stingray 44s overhauled properly and put it into regular use. Photos in a few months.....

I also wonder how much CHF 110 in 1967 is equivalent to in today's money!

Cheers

JohnW
To give an impression: CHF 110.50 today is $ 89,82

In 2005, $89.82 from 1967 is worth:

$525.20 using the Consumer Price Index</SPAN>$423.87 using the GDP deflator</SPAN>$561.42 using the unskilled wage</SPAN>$896.36 using the nominal GDP per capita</SPAN>$1,343.72 using the relative share of GDP</SPAN>

See the Construction of CPI | GDP | Unskilled Wage series

Source: http://www.measuringworth.com/calculators/compare/

Greetings from the Netherlands,

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #15
To give an impression: CHF 110.50 today is $ 89,82

In 2005, $89.82 from 1967 is worth:

$525.20 using the Consumer Price Index</SPAN>$423.87 using the GDP deflator</SPAN>$561.42 using the unskilled wage</SPAN>$896.36 using the nominal GDP per capita</SPAN>$1,343.72 using the relative share of GDP</SPAN>

See the Construction of CPI | GDP | Unskilled Wage series

Source: http://www.measuringworth.com/calculators/compare/

Greetings from the Netherlands,

Chris
Thanks Chris. It all suggests you would invest in Mars bars before watches! Best to stick with our little passion for them as mechanical devices.

Best wishes from Australia.

John
 
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