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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone living toward the end of a signal's coverage area found that Multi-Band 6 models do not sync as consistently as Multi-Band 5 or less models? As the weather turns cooler, I find that even in Manhattan (not a great area for atomic sync. generally because of all the buildings and r/f interference), most of my watches are sync'ing reliably. The two that are the least reliable are my two Multi-Band 6 models. They reside in a six slot watch box with four other atomic/sync. models and often are the only two watches in the box that don't sync. on a given night.
 

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No MB6 watches here. Mine are currently in a drawer and all of them usually sync. But, I'm not in a big city w/ lots of interference either.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'm in nyc as well, my riseman does miss some syncing while the other MB5 models sync on a more consistent basis. Weird eh?
Yeah. It makes me think that adding the capacity for receiving a sixth signal, somehow required a compromise that made the radio a little less sensetive overall.
 

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Sounds like the making of an entry in You Know You're Watch Nut When: "You know you're a watch nut when you need to go upstate this weekend, because your G-Shock hasn't synched downtown all week and could be +/-.03 seconds off by now." :-!

Seriously, it would be interesting to learn that the sixth signal hit a technology threshhold and required a compromise.
 

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Not a Multi band 6, but a 5 band: having the same issue north of you (Boston area). My Silencer never missed a signal (including in a box in the Post Office!). It always synced whether it was on my wrist, bedside or in the watch box. New GW5525A has to be in the window facing west to get the signal, but never misses the first one.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Sounds like the making of an entry in You Know You're Watch Nut When: "You know you're a watch nut when you need to go upstate this weekend, because your G-Shock hasn't synched downtown all week and could be +/-.03 seconds off by now." :-!

Seriously, it would be interesting to learn that the sixth signal hit a technology threshhold and required a compromise.
My God, that really COULD be me! Is there any help for me? Is it already too late?????:-d:-d
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Not a Multi band 6, but a 5 band: having the same issue north of you (Boston area). My Silencer never missed a signal (including in a box in the Post Office!). It always synced whether it was on my wrist, bedside or in the watch box. New GW5525A has to be in the window facing west to get the signal, but never misses the first one.
Those of us on the Eastern Seaboard are pushing it a bit, I guess. Back when I had more free time, I used to occasionally listen to shortwave radio. I had two pretty decent Sony shortwave portables. Even with a dedicated radio and a fairly good antenna, the signal from WWVB in Fort Collins, CO was not always clear. (There is an audio signal [or at least there used to be] -- you can listen to the seconds ticking and an automated voice announcing the time every minute.) It is pretty amazing that a wrist watch can receive that signal at the same location -- even if it doesn't do it perfectly every night.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Down here in Miami my Riseman is resilient to sync. So I guess I am out of range?
Well, if my guess that MultiBand 6 G-Shocks have radios with lesser range and sensetivity is correct (and my guess is nothing more than an uneducated stab in the dark), you might have better luck with another atomic model.

Also, I suspect reception will improve -- even in Miami -- as winter approaches. My recollection from the years I used to listen to shortwave is that signal propagation is better in the winter.
 

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I don't think there's any real reason to believe multiband 6's are less sensitive than multiband 5's, as you hear of different multiband 5 models syncing more often than other mulitband 5's. I'd have thought it more likely to be related to the antenna (and possibly the structure of the watch) than the addition of an extra band.
 

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There are a lot of threads like this in the archives. Here is my personal opinion.

I think that almost all sync problems are user-related, not watch-related. On most of these threads, the user has not read the instructions and/or not followed the instructions.

I have single-band, dual-band and five-band watches. They all sync perfectly night after night because I read the instructions and followed the instructions. I live on the East Coast - more specifically, Orlando. Miami and New York certainly are within range. Casio understates the range, not overstates the range. My watches sync in South America. New York and Miami are within range.

Note that all of the supposedly "problematic" watches discussed here are relatively new. When I buy a new atomic G-Shock, I set the watch properly and I leave it in a windowsill for an entire week. This fully charges the solar battery. Within a week, the watch begins to sync reliably. I never have a problem thereafter.

I think the various situations mentioned in this thread have absolutely nothing to do with the East Coast or six-band watches. However, it is possible. My first six-band will be the GW-9010R-4JF, but it isn't available yet.

Forget about manual sync. Personally, I always use auto sync.

Also, computer equipment definitely interferes with reception. Put the watches in a windowsill away from computer equipment.

I hope this info helps. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
There are a lot of threads like this in the archives. Here is my personal opinion.

I think that almost all sync problems are user-related, not watch-related. On most of these threads, the user has not read the instructions and/or not followed the instructions.

I have single-band, dual-band and five-band watches. They all sync perfectly night after night because I read the instructions and followed the instructions. I live on the East Coast - more specifically, Orlando. Miami and New York certainly are within range. Casio understates the range, not overstates the range. My watches sync in South America. New York and Miami are within range.

Note that all of the supposedly "problematic" watches discussed here are relatively new. When I buy a new atomic G-Shock, I set the watch properly and I leave it in a windowsill for an entire week. This fully charges the solar battery. Within a week, the watch begins to sync reliably. I never have a problem thereafter.

I think the various situations mentioned in this thread have absolutely nothing to do with the East Coast or six-band watches. However, it is possible. My first six-band will be the GW-9010R-4JF, but it isn't available yet.

Forget about manual sync. Personally, I always use auto sync.

Also, computer equipment definitely interferes with reception. Put the watches in a windowsill away from computer equipment.

I hope this info helps. Good luck.
You may well be right about "almost all" problems. If so, this is one of those exceptions that proves the rule.

First, location matters. Things that generally interfere with radio reception (and particularly shortwave reception) -- big buildings, r/f interference, etc. may interfere with synchronization. Casio's instructions confirm this.

In addition, while there may well be some exceptions given how radio signals can bounce around, generally speaking the closer you are to the source of a signal, the stronger that signal is going to be.

Put those two factors together, and you are going to sync. less reliably from an apartment building surrounded by other apartment buildings in a densely populated area on the Eastern Seaboard than you will in on a farm in Iowa. (Indeed, you don't have to go that far. My watches sync far more regularly in Columbia County, New York (about two hours north of New York City) than they do in town. Same watches, set the same way and placed in window sills over night as west facing as possible.

Second, the conditions for signal propagation matter. There are days when virtually all my atomic watches sync. And there are days when almost none of them do. They're in the same window sills, facing the same way, set the same way, etc. Unless there are variables I can't take into account (maybe the neighbor's wireless computer network is up one night and not up the next), the likely variable is weather -- which, as I've said, clearly affects propagation. Clearly, "user error" does not cause a watch, that is not moved from its case on the window sill, to sync four nights in a row and then fail to sync for a week straight.

Third, both my Riseman and my rally Mudman have sync'd in Manhattan and in upstate New York. (This pretty much rules out the "user error" theory.) But, even sitting in the same six slot box, inches away from other atomic solar models, they consistently sync far less often than the others. Lexxorcist may well be right, that it is the design of these watches or their antennae that could be the issue -- as opposed to the mere addition of an additional band -- but *something* clearly renders these watches less sensetive and less reliable.

Fourth, I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but I would bet that even these less sensetive watches would sync more reliably if they were in a stronger signal area, i.e., if they were away from big buildings and r/f interference and a bit closer to Fort Collins, CO and WWVB.

For what it is worth, my most reliably sync'ing watches seem to be various of the atomic/solar 5600s and my Silencer.
 

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You may well be right about "almost all" problems. If so, this is one of those exceptions that proves the rule.

First, location matters. Things that generally interfere with radio reception (and particularly shortwave reception) -- big buildings, r/f interference, etc. may interfere with synchronization. Casio's instructions confirm this.

In addition, while there may well be some exceptions given how radio signals can bounce around, generally speaking the closer you are to the source of a signal, the stronger that signal is going to be.

Put those two factors together, and you are going to sync. less reliably from an apartment building surrounded by other apartment buildings in a densely populated area on the Eastern Seaboard than you will in on a farm in Iowa. (Indeed, you don't have to go that far. My watches sync far more regularly in Columbia County, New York (about two hours north of New York City) than they do in town. Same watches, set the same way and placed in window sills over night as west facing as possible.

Second, the conditions for signal propagation matter. There are days when virtually all my atomic watches sync. And there are days when almost none of them do. They're in the same window sills, facing the same way, set the same way, etc. Unless there are variables I can't take into account (maybe the neighbor's wireless computer network is up one night and not up the next), the likely variable is weather -- which, as I've said, clearly affects propagation. Clearly, "user error" does not cause a watch, that is not moved from its case on the window sill, to sync four nights in a row and then fail to sync for a week straight.

Third, both my Riseman and my rally Mudman have sync'd in Manhattan and in upstate New York. (This pretty much rules out the "user error" theory.) But, even sitting in the same six slot box, inches away from other atomic solar models, they consistently sync far less often than the others. Lexxorcist may well be right, that it is the design of these watches or their antennae that could be the issue -- as opposed to the mere addition of an additional band -- but *something* clearly renders these watches less sensetive and less reliable.

Fourth, I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but I would bet that even these less sensetive watches would sync more reliably if they were in a stronger signal area, i.e., if they were away from big buildings and r/f interference and a bit closer to Fort Collins, CO and WWVB.

For what it is worth, my most reliably sync'ing watches seem to be various of the atomic/solar 5600s and my Silencer.
I highly doubt that New York City offers greater interference than Tokyo.

I also highly doubt that Casio would engineer and sell a product for the U.S. market that doesn't work in New York City. New York City is within the stated coverage area, and the coverage area is far larger than Casio reveals.

My watches sync in South America. There are reviews on Amazon from South Americans that have atomic G-Shocks.

What type of weather are you arguing affects the sync reliability? Warm weather? It doesn't get much warmer than Orlando, and my atomic G-Shocks sync just fine.

Again, I don't have the GW-9010R-4JF yet. Maybe you are correct. It's possible. Intuitively, however, it doesn't add up. I think it's more likely that your battery is not fully charged...or that the instructions are different for six-band watches...or it's due to the computer equipment of neighbors...or whatever.
 

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I have single-band, dual-band and five-band watches. They all sync perfectly night after night because I read the instructions and followed the instructions.
Good for you but the tread is about the Multi-band 6.
User problem? I do not think there is any difficulty involved in the set up, my VCR is more complicated. Maybe it has to do with the area one is located, where I live (Miami) my cell reception is terrible inside my house so, it could be the same with my Riseman.:think:
I guess it depends in the area that one lives. Maybe another guy who lives near me can verify either way?
Good luck withy your new watch:-!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I highly doubt that New York City offers greater interference than Tokyo.

I also highly doubt that Casio would engineer and sell a product for the U.S. market that doesn't work in New York City. New York City is within the stated coverage area, and the coverage area is far larger than Casio reveals.

My watches sync in South America. There are reviews on Amazon from South Americans that have atomic G-Shocks.

What type of weather are you arguing affects the sync reliability? Warm weather? It doesn't get much warmer than Orlando, and my atomic G-Shocks sync just fine.

Again, I don't have the GW-9010R-4JF yet. Maybe you are correct. It's possible. Intuitively, however, it doesn't add up. I think it's more likely that your battery is not fully charged...or that the instructions are different for six-band watches...or it's due to the computer equipment of neighbors...or whatever.
>>I highly doubt that New York City offers greater interference than Tokyo.<<

I agree. But New York is 1,600 miles from the WWVB transmitter. Tokyo is much, much closer to both of the Japanese transmitters. So, the local interference will be more of a factor when the signal is already significantly weaker due to distance.

Casio, of course, recognizes this. The manuals that come with atomic sync watches warn that reception is less successful when, among other things, when the watch is in a building among large buildings, when there is r/f interference, and when one is farther away from the signal source. You can't just look at one factor, you have to look at all factors that might be having an impact.

(AM "skip" is another example of how local conditions can affect reception. Local AM or "medium wave" to our friends in Europe, like shortwave, travels farther at night, when the ionosphere acts like a mirror allowing radio waves to bounce more readilly and travel farther. On nights when "skip" is really having an effect, one can receive AM radio stations from many parts of the country. For all the reasons I've already cited, the "skip" effect is much less pronounced in Manhattan.)

>>I also highly doubt that Casio would engineer and sell a product for the U.S. market that doesn't work in New York City<<

Well, Casio clearly cites every factor I've pointed out -- concentrations of buildings, r/f interference, local weather conditions, and distance from the transmistter in excess of 600 miles and notes that these factors may make reception "difficult or even impossible".

http://www2.casio.co.jp/manual_pdf/wat/en/pdf_search.php?MODULE=3050&submit.x=50&submit.y=13

Once again, the more factors that are piled on, the greater the difficulty will be. This is just common sense. Distance from the transmitter is not enough to block reception, most nights, sitting up in a field in Colubmia County, New York. But it clearly is one contributing factor, among others, leading to poor reception, on some nights, in New York City.

>>What type of weather are you arguing affects the sync reliability? Warm weather?<<

Storms and atmospheric disturbances can affect signal propagation and thus reception. As for winter vs. summer, it is not warm weather per se. It is widely known that shortwave reception is better in late Fall, winter and early Spring. I don't think the issue is air temperature, but rather, the greater degree of darkness in winter months.

See the following list from Wikipedia of factors affecting propagation and reception:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortwave#Shortwave_propagation
  • The distance from the transmitter to the target receiver.
  • Time of day. During the day, frequencies higher than approximately 12 MHz can travel longer distances than lower ones; at night, this property is reversed. The dependence on the time of the day is due to a particular transient atmosphere ionized layer known as the D Layer, forming only during day when photons from the sun break up atoms into ions and free electrons. This layer is responsible for partial or total absorption of particular frequencies.
  • Season. During the winter months the AM broadcast band tends to be more favorable because of longer hours of darkness.
  • Solar activity. Sunspots, solar flares, and overall solar variation affect the ionosphere. Solar flares can prevent the ionosphere from reflecting or refracting radio waves.
Finally, to get back to the original point: Six watches, all fully charged, all sitting within millimeters of each other, all in the window sill, all set according to instructions. Another box of six a half foot away. Many nights, the only two that don't charge are the Riseman and the rally Mudman. The only logical explanation is that something in the design or construction of those watches has made them at least a little less sensetive than their G-Shock "siblings".

(That is not big "knock" on these watches as far as I'm concerned. I love my Riseman -- and it is not a big deal to occasionally correct the time by hand.)
 

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Finally, to get back to the original point: Six watches, all fully charged, all sitting within millimeters of each other, all in the window sill, all set according to instructions. Another box of six a half foot away. Many nights, the only two that don't charge are the Riseman and the rally Mudman. The only logical explanation is that something in the design or construction of those watches has made them at least a little less sensetive than their G-Shock "siblings".
I fully understand the multivariate theory. However, it is not "the only logical explanation" as you state.

The archives are full of threads like this. If I remember correctly, those threads almost always involve two things: Americans and new atomic G-Shocks.

Several Americans (myself, Topher, etc.) have noticed that new atomic G-Shocks do not sync reliably right away. I don't remember a single thread where a European or Asian complained that a two-year old G-Shock suddenly began to sync unreliably.

What could possibly explain the "learning period" for new atomic G-Shocks? I don't think that there is a learning period. My theory is that it is battery-related. At a minimum, the battery gauge is an imprecise gauge - there are only three levels (high, medium, low). Perhaps the battery gauge is even inaccurate?

You keep focusing on the fact that the two supposedly "problematic" models are six-band. However, it is also possible that they are your newest atomic G-Shocks. After all, they are recent models.

Is it possible that a fully charged battery assists reception reliability?

Is it possible that the two supposedly "problematic" six-band models are recent purchases?

Is it possible that the six-band models are not fully charged because you have a large G-Shock collection and do not wear them often? Direct sunlight from outdoors is far better than indirect sunlight through a window.

Does the windowsill where they are kept get much sun?

It seems unlikely the newest G-Shock models engineered by Casio would have less reliable reception than earlier G-Shock models. Reliability should improve, not decline.

Perhaps the key variable is not that they are six-band, but, rather that they never have truly achieved a full initial charge - despite what the battery gauge indicates.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I fully understand the multivariate theory. However, it is not "the only logical explanation" as you state.

The archives are full of threads like this. If I remember correctly, those threads almost always involve two things: Americans and new atomic G-Shocks.

Several Americans (myself, Topher, etc.) have noticed that new atomic G-Shocks do not sync reliably right away. I don't remember a single thread where a European or Asian complained that a two-year old G-Shock suddenly began to sync unreliably.

What could possibly explain the "learning period" for new atomic G-Shocks? I don't think that there is a learning period. My theory is that it is battery-related. At a minimum, the battery gauge is an imprecise gauge - there are only three levels (high, medium, low). Perhaps the battery gauge is even inaccurate?

You keep focusing on the fact that the two supposedly "problematic" models are six-band. However, it is also possible that they are your newest atomic G-Shocks. After all, they are recent models.

Is it possible that a fully charged battery assists reception reliability?

Is it possible that the two supposedly "problematic" six-band models are recent purchases?

Is it possible that the six-band models are not fully charged because you have a large G-Shock collection and do not wear them often? Direct sunlight from outdoors is far better than indirect sunlight through a window.

Does the windowsill where they are kept get much sun?

It seems unlikely the newest G-Shocks models engineered by Casio would have less reliable reception than earlier G-Shock models. Reliability should improve, not decline.

Perhaps the key variable is not that they are six-band, but, rather that they never have truly achieved a full initial charge - despite what the battery gauge indicates.
Well those are certainly possibilities, but I don't think they ultimately apply here. Time will tell, I guess. The Riseman got a lot of wrist time in direct summer sunlight, outdoors, when I got it. It certainly got as much or more outdoor sunlight as other new acquisitions in the relatively recent past (atomic/solar mudman, etc.). Yet it has been the consistently worst performer.

Anyway, we shall see.
 

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Well those are certainly possibilities, but I don't think they ultimately apply here. Time will tell, I guess. The Riseman got a lot of wrist time in direct summer sunlight, outdoors, when I got it. It certainly got as much or more outdoor sunlight as other new acquisitions in the relatively recent past (atomic/solar mudman, etc.). Yet it has been the consistently worst performer.

Anyway, we shall see.
In a 30-day period, how many nights does the Riseman not sync?

In a 30-day period, how many nights does the rally Mudman not sync?

It might be worthwhile to call CasioSalesAndService.com to find out what they are hearing from customers nationwide about the six-band models. :think:

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
In a 30-day period, how many nights does the Riseman not sync?

In a 30-day period, how many nights does the rally Mudman not sync?

It might be worthwhile to call CasioSalesAndService.com to find out what they are hearing from customers nationwide about the six-band models. :think:

Good luck.
In the past 30 days, the Riseman sync'd, I'd say, not more than five times -- and at least three of those five were upstate where reception conditions were clearly better. During the same period, I 'd say the rally Mudman has not sync'd more than twice. (Your battery theory may apply here -- the rally Mudman has been consistently in the window sill getting reasonable afternoon sunshine; but it has not been out in direct light nearly as often as the Riseman).

During that same period, on average, my Silencer, my atomic/solar Mudmen, my atomic/solar Gulfmen, my two atomic/solar Pathfinders, and various atomic/solar 5600s sync'd roughly two out of every three days.
 
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