[Watch OCD]

Hi all
long time reader but new to posting on WUS
i am looking at buying a Panerai.
the ones which catch my eye are: 000, 104, 112, 111, 422, 312 and 321
im on a limited budget and would like to buy brand new.
i love the look of the 104 and the combination of rubber and black leather strap that it comes with. exactly what i want.

preferences: black leather+rubber, date (preferably cyclops), see through case back.

questions:
does the 104 come with 2 straps (rubber + leather) by default?
what about the other Pam's? do most of them come with these 2 straps?
do they come with a deployment clasp or a buckle? which ones come with deployment and which ones with buckle?

suggestions

cheers

 

[Synequano]

I will try to answer your questions
Yes,104 comes with both leather and rubber on deployant (the newer model even has that quick release to make strap changing even easier)

Most of the other pams (mostly Luminors) usually comes with rubber and leather,with the exception of the submersible 44 mm(including arktos) that comes with rubber and velcro,the 47 mm luminors 1950 also come with 2 leather straps on buckle,while the radiomir does not come with any extra straps (for more info refer to my posts from few months back regarding what you get in the box when you buy the particular model)

Basically,the handwound models (and older automatic models) come with buckle,while the contemporary (auto) luminor models (24,25,90,104,164) usually come with deployant,while the auto luminor 1950 models (351,312,359) come with buckle

For your preference,my suggestion will be 104,164 (48 if you want 40 mm) all these have no display caseback,the other group will be 312 and 359 but these models have no cyclops,alternatively you can check 351 if you want something different - all the models I mentioned in this paragraph are auto

Of all the models you choose,422 is different because it has 47 mm case and its handwound movement,321 is also different because it is a GMT model with power reserve on the dial

000,111,112 are handwound models without date,so they don't fit your initial criteria,however if you're on a budget,try 000,it is the cheapest model but it is a good watch to start your Pam journey

 

[stilo]

Good advise from Synequano. Most Panerai faithful will agree that the 000 is about as close to the roots as you can get in a modern Panerai, with the 112 being a step up in the range while still being close to roots, minus the exibition caseback of course.

 

[Watch OCD]

thanks guys
n thanks synequano for such a detailed post... helped me alot and made alot of things clear for me..
looks like u know ur Pams well
after reading ur post, and doing some research...i think the 104 best suits my needs...
the 000 and 112 quite dont hit the spot because of four things: manual, no date, no deployment and the logo.
so basically the choice is between 104 and 312.
ive read some people criticizing 104 movement....wats your take on comparing 104 and 312 movements?
is buying a 104 worth or is it just a cheap movement disguised under pam body....like a honda with ferrari body kit
prices for 104, 312, 000, 112?

cheers

 

[Synequano]

I don't really remember the current price,you can check paneristi for details,anyway 312 costs around 6000 eur and 104 cost around 4500-4700 eur,000 is slightly less than 4000 eur while I don't remember the price of 112 (4400ish eur?)

If you ask my opinion,I'd say try them both before deciding,312 felt bigger and have thicker (17 mm) case in comparison with 104 (14-15 mm),another thing,312 comes with buckle,not clasps like 104,I have posted the comparison of thickness in the other thread where I put 111 side by side with 351

Another consideration is the cost of servicing,ETA 7750 in 104 is easier to service in comparison with P9000 (in house movement) in 312,you have to send the P9000 for service to richemont and it took them quite a while to get it back to you

If you factor the PR,P9000 have 3 days PR,whereas 7750 have only 40-42 hrs PR

 

[Watch OCD]

And how are the dials different on the 104, 112 and 312...sandwich/non sandwich? Shape of the dial itself...or the shape is same? Whats the diff between 1950's and the modern 104's

 

[Synequano]

I'm not sure about 104,but I know that 312 and (newer)112 have sandwich dial while 000 (and older 112) have painted dial

The main difference between 1950 case and standard luminor is the basic shape,while the side of bettarini case is flat,the side of 1950 is curved,the crown guard also different,the 1950's CG has Reg TM on it

(older 111 & 351)

For clearer view of 1950 case,check out photos by Enzo or travelller,their photo is much better than mine

 

[Watch OCD]

thanks Synequano
for all the advice...appreciate it.
you mentioned about visiting your earlier post 'whats comes in the box' and earlier photos of comparing dial thickness and photos by traveller and Enzo...
how do i reach these? do u have link to these pages?
ive tried to search but no luck... relatively new to these forums...how do we search particular wus members posts/photos?

 

[Synequano]

I cannot give the title of the particular thread,but you can check the photo section,usually there are many pics,I think Travelller also put the side profile of his 233 on the post regarding pam 233,while Enzo usually attach some pic below his post

As for my previous post,I forgot the exact title but I compiled some info regarding what do I get if I buy this particular Pam model

 

[TDR1982]

I would only add that often new pams may require a wait at the AD... As such I chose to go second hand but in mint condition. On a 312 you could probably save a couple of quid on the retail price as well....

As for the case I was torn between a base model and a 312 but found the fiddy style case just didn't seem to fit me as well as the regular luminor.... Seemed too chunky. Anyways I ended up with a ltd edition, one of the boutique ones, number 9 of 100. Which I think is quite cool, still its everything your not looking for as its manual and has no date!

Good luck with the hunt!

Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Tapatalk

 

[Kayeuk]

Guys any chance of some help. I've bought a watch on an auction and its verified at real with no box or papers but its the only one ice seen with the dials on the top and bottom not at the the 3and 9 position. I will load some pics when I arrives hopefully Friday. I don't want to look a goon taking it to a jeweller to be told its a dud.

 

[Watch OCD]

@TDR thanks for the advice
although going second hand is not an option for me, as there are no reputable second hand dealers here.
as for the model, i like everything about the 312, but i need the deployment clasp on the strap.
on the other hand, the 104 seems to have everything i want (apart from see through case back) cyclops date, deployment, rubber+leather strap and im hearing the new ones are coming with sandwich dial . and is also cheaper (due to ETA, i suppose) which i dont mind
havent tried any on the wrist, not sure how both the cases would compare when actually wearing them. are they very much different when wearing them?

 

[Synequano]

1950 case felt more top heavy due to the extra thickness and domed crystal
I do find the luminor case more wearable because it is thinner and felt more natural on my wrist (with the exception of pam 92)

 

[Watch OCD]

i always thought its the other way round.
that is: 1950's slimmer and more wearable, luminor bulky, thick and like a block
thanks for clarifying

 

[de_accion]

If anyone is interested on a Panerai Luminor 1950 Flyback Chronograph Watch (PAM 361) please let me know, I just decided to let it go in order to get another impressive timepiece such as this one....Great condition, great brushed finish, great price.

 

[superbry]

Pam104 is good for your preference. Having a deployment buckle seems cool at first, but it does not wear as comfortable as the tang IMO. I like the tang better, it wears more comfortable. 312 and 104 have pretty much the same face except for the difference mentioned. Luminor cases sit well on the wrist (for me), 1950 cases are thicker as also mentioned. try them both first. As for the clear caseback, doesn't really matter bec 1. you will not see it when you wear it, 2. most of the models you mentioned will not let you see the movement in its "entirety" except for the 422 (which is out of your criteria because 1. it doesnt have the date function, 2. 47mm is not the type to be worn under your suit, 3. price is more than $10,000 last time I checked.) This is your first panerai so if I may suggest that you opt for a not so expensive piece first just in case you find out next time that panerai is not for you. Just my opinion. Goodluck!

 

[Watch OCD]

Pam104 is good for your preference. Having a deployment buckle seems cool at first, but it does not wear as comfortable as the tang IMO. I like the tang better, it wears more comfortable. 312 and 104 have pretty much the same face except for the difference mentioned. Luminor cases sit well on the wrist (for me), 1950 cases are thicker as also mentioned. try them both first. As for the clear caseback, doesn't really matter bec 1. you will not see it when you wear it, 2. most of the models you mentioned will not let you see the movement in its "entirety" except for the 422 (which is out of your criteria because 1. it doesnt have the date function, 2. 47mm is not the type to be worn under your suit, 3. price is more than $10,000 last time I checked.) This is your first panerai so if I may suggest that you opt for a not so expensive piece first just in case you find out next time that panerai is not for you. Just my opinion. Goodluck!

ok about the Deployment vs Tang. some questions
firstly, i like deploymant buckle over tang. a) because it seems cool. b) its easy to wear/take off watch. c) it puts less pressure on the strap and it wears out longer.
are the straps for deployment and tang buckle different? would the tang buckle fit a deployment strap and vice versa?

i asked an AD if i buy a base model, is it possible to change tang with deployment. the representative said i could change the buckle with them without any problem. however, ill have to pay additional £175. (the tang will be returned for -175 and the deployment costs +350) net 175.
if the straps for both are different, does the AD mean they will change the strap and buckle? they did not specify.

many people say the Panerai deployment buckles are not comfortable, what is the issue? are there any other options? i have checked panatime etc, the buckles look the same. but to go aftermarket, i will still have to buy the watch with deployment in the first place (considering straps are different for both buckles)

i have seen some photos of panerai buckles

in this style the punched/holed part of the strap keeps hanging out which i dont like.
i prefer the other look like Tag or Hublot rubber straps have. where the longer punched end doesnt show. like this one

or

does panerai have any such OEM buckles? or any after market ones?

lastly i would like to ask, how easy is it to change the OEM deployment clasp from one strap to another?

 

[Watch OCD]

***images borrowed off google images*** for reference only

also, i keep saying deployment.....is it actually deployment clasp or deployant clasp?
the spell check underlines deployant so its kinda annoying..

 

[Synequano]

The strap for deployant are different than the strap for tang,the middle section for deployant strap is bigger

AFAIK,Pam have no deployant that hides the strap end,the strap end always ended up on the outside

As for strap changing,there are several different deployants,mine happen to be the older luminor deployant in which I have to remove one of the metal bar that is attached to the strap,the newer one will require you to take out a small screw in order to remove the deployant,depends on which one you get,personally I prefer the older deployant,less chance for missing piece..

 

[Watch OCD]

...........the newer one will require you to take out a small screw in order to remove the deployant,depends on which one you get,personally I prefer the older deployant,less chance for missing piece..

is the change easy? will i need some tools? or the screw driver provided will do the work?
another question......sorry guys if im asking too many questions, but im new to panerai and it isnt available in my country, so cant go and try it at the AD.
whats the quick release button, and which current models have it? is it somthin to do with strap change or buckle change? how good/effective is it?